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1234portion Group Title

the Haulting question: say there was a computer program, decide whether the program finishes running or runs forever!?!?!

  • 2 years ago
  • 2 years ago

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  1. dumbcow Group Title
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    i dunno what program is it running? most programs would finish running but if it was stuck in a loop and had a infinite power source then who knows... :)

    • 2 years ago
  2. 1234portion Group Title
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    dumb cow, if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials???

    • 2 years ago
  3. dumbcow Group Title
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    haha i have 1000 medals

    • 2 years ago
  4. zbay Group Title
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    haha

    • 2 years ago
  5. Thomas9 Group Title
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    The halting problem is about a program that has as input a different program and gives as output whether or not it stops. Apparently it doesn't exist.

    • 2 years ago
  6. 1234portion Group Title
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    um... do you have a formal educational back groud, dumb cow?

    • 2 years ago
  7. dumbcow Group Title
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    are you really a student?

    • 2 years ago
  8. 1234portion Group Title
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    thomas 9, that was an interesting responce

    • 2 years ago
  9. 1234portion Group Title
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    but consider the sketch of proof

    • 2 years ago
  10. Owlfred Group Title
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    1234 what type of credentials are you looking for?

    • 2 years ago
  11. Thomas9 Group Title
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    The proof was something with using the initial program as input, but I forgot most of it.

    • 2 years ago
  12. estudier Group Title
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    My OS is supposed to run forever, doesn't though.

    • 2 years ago
  13. Thomas9 Group Title
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    lol

    • 2 years ago
  14. Zarkon Group Title
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    I have a Ph.D. Galactic Domination(see profile). How's that?

    • 2 years ago
  15. 1234portion Group Title
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    the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable

    • 2 years ago
  16. dumbcow Group Title
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    galactic domination...!!?? interesting...

    • 2 years ago
  17. 1234portion Group Title
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    thomas 9

    • 2 years ago
  18. estudier Group Title
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    Not algorithmically decidable.

    • 2 years ago
  19. Thomas9 Group Title
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    yes?

    • 2 years ago
  20. 1234portion Group Title
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    h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise

    • 2 years ago
  21. estudier Group Title
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    Not recursive.

    • 2 years ago
  22. Zarkon Group Title
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    yes...I looked at many universities, but Planet Doom University had the program that i really wanted. Great profeessors

    • 2 years ago
  23. 1234portion Group Title
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    are you serious Zarkon?

    • 2 years ago
  24. 1234portion Group Title
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    i have not heard from you thomas 9?

    • 2 years ago
  25. myininaya Group Title
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    galactic domination! i want that degree

    • 2 years ago
  26. myininaya Group Title
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    sounds hot and spicy

    • 2 years ago
  27. Ishaan94 Group Title
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    Can I apply for Planet Doom University ?

    • 2 years ago
  28. Zarkon Group Title
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    yes...the degree is in high demand

    • 2 years ago
  29. 1234portion Group Title
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    estudier what do you think?

    • 2 years ago
  30. Zarkon Group Title
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    you can...but the off planet tuition is a killer

    • 2 years ago
  31. estudier Group Title
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    U have my opinion already.

    • 2 years ago
  32. myininaya Group Title
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    what kindof question is this, 1234?

    • 2 years ago
  33. 1234portion Group Title
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    well what about my sketch of proof?

    • 2 years ago
  34. Ishaan94 Group Title
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    http://www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Planet+Doom+University

    • 2 years ago
  35. estudier Group Title
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    Where is it?

    • 2 years ago
  36. Thomas9 Group Title
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    the proof he means not the university of doom.

    • 2 years ago
  37. 1234portion Group Title
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    i am going to copy and repost my earlier responce

    • 2 years ago
  38. 1234portion Group Title
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    the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable

    • 2 years ago
  39. estudier Group Title
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    The proof sketch, not PDUni.

    • 2 years ago
  40. shadowfiend Group Title
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    1234portion -- I didn't see a sketch of a proof. You stated the problem correctly, however.

    • 2 years ago
  41. Zarkon Group Title
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    it is not the university of doom...that place it just a diploma mill. Planet Doom University is where I went

    • 2 years ago
  42. shadowfiend Group Title
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    The proof itself, at least in the original form presented by Alan Turing, involves defining what a computer is and describing how it runs a program (the then-named Turing machine is the machine that Turing posited for this). I believe you can also prove the same thing using the lambda calculus.

    • 2 years ago
  43. Owlfred Group Title
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    1234 Portion, is this your first day on the site?

    • 2 years ago
  44. 1234portion Group Title
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    h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise here program i refers to the i program in an enumeratio of all the programs of a fixed turing complete model of computation.

    • 2 years ago
  45. 1234portion Group Title
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    that was for you e studier

    • 2 years ago
  46. 1234portion Group Title
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    yes to your question owlfred

    • 2 years ago
  47. Owlfred Group Title
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    okay cool, how did you find us?

    • 2 years ago
  48. 1234portion Group Title
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    browsing... who are you exactly mr.owl?

    • 2 years ago
  49. 1234portion Group Title
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    with the utmost respect of course

    • 2 years ago
  50. 1234portion Group Title
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    ...

    • 2 years ago
  51. shadowfiend Group Title
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    Heh. He's the OpenStudy mascot/moderator in chief.

    • 2 years ago
  52. 1234portion Group Title
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    and who are you exactly??

    • 2 years ago
  53. shadowfiend Group Title
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    The Chief Software Engineer at OpenStudy.

    • 2 years ago
  54. 1234portion Group Title
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    cool

    • 2 years ago
  55. 1234portion Group Title
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    maby you can answer my question?

    • 2 years ago
  56. estudier Group Title
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    Asked and answered.

    • 2 years ago
  57. shadowfiend Group Title
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    I'm not sure what exactly your question is :) Do you want a full proof for the undecidability of the halting problem?

    • 2 years ago
  58. Owlfred Group Title
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    Haha, yeah sorry. I'm a moderator on OpenStudy.

    • 2 years ago
  59. 1234portion Group Title
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    well thank you for your input e studier

    • 2 years ago
  60. myininaya Group Title
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    i say let the computer program run forever

    • 2 years ago
  61. myininaya Group Title
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    lol

    • 2 years ago
  62. imranmeah91 Group Title
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    lol @ myin

    • 2 years ago
  63. myininaya Group Title
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    and let the machines take over

    • 2 years ago
  64. Zarkon Group Title
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    10 print "hello" 20 goto 10 what about this

    • 2 years ago
  65. estudier Group Title
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    Q "decide whether" A algorithmically undecidable.

    • 2 years ago
  66. shadowfiend Group Title
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    The question of the halting problem is for the general case. Given an arbitrary program, decide whether the program will end or not. It is impossible to write a program that will answer this question every time. It *is* possible to write a program that will answer this question sometimes.

    • 2 years ago
  67. 1234portion Group Title
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    estudier you can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???

    • 2 years ago
  68. 1234portion Group Title
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    shadow friend that is very intriguing, elaborate!

    • 2 years ago
  69. shadowfiend Group Title
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    Not sure what you're asking. Can you give an example?

    • 2 years ago
  70. 1234portion Group Title
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    just explain more in detail about you response shadow friend, and like i said to estudieryou can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???

    • 2 years ago
  71. estudier Group Title
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    A more interesting question is quantifying undecidability, or complexity in general.

    • 2 years ago
  72. satellite73 Group Title
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    i am not sure my computer can even run as long as this thread

    • 2 years ago
  73. 1234portion Group Title
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    e studier do you know of any powerful computer programs that postulate very complex and abstract mathematical information?

    • 2 years ago
  74. 1234portion Group Title
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    and if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials ??? estudier?

    • 2 years ago
  75. satellite73 Group Title
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    satelllite md phd psyd do dsw dch university of the galaxy (online)

    • 2 years ago
  76. imranmeah91 Group Title
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    how many were bought online

    • 2 years ago
  77. satellite73 Group Title
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    i got them for free well i did have to buy the candy bars

    • 2 years ago
  78. 1234portion Group Title
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    what is up with you satellite73???

    • 2 years ago
  79. Zarkon Group Title
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    lol

    • 2 years ago
  80. 1234portion Group Title
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    i dont find this funny

    • 2 years ago
  81. 1234portion Group Title
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    what ever happened to shadow friend?

    • 2 years ago
  82. Zarkon Group Title
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    University of the Galaxy ...oooohhh...very prestigious!!

    • 2 years ago
  83. satellite73 Group Title
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    yeah we used to kick your butts in lacrosse too !

    • 2 years ago
  84. Zarkon Group Title
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    yeah...we suck. :(

    • 2 years ago
  85. satellite73 Group Title
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    girls team did anyway

    • 2 years ago
  86. shadowfiend Group Title
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    All right, all right, stay on topic. If you want to talk about the University of the Galaxy, go do it in chat.

    • 2 years ago
  87. satellite73 Group Title
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    was there a topic or just a credential check?

    • 2 years ago
  88. shadowfiend Group Title
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    Heh. Ignore the credential check ;) The topic at hand is the halting problem.

    • 2 years ago
  89. shadowfiend Group Title
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    As for my response, I'm just saying that the question of the halting problem is for the general case of any program. You can write a program that recognizes common patterns of programs that halt or don't. You can also decide the halting problem if you're not talking about a general purpose (or Turing-complete) programming language.

    • 2 years ago
  90. 1234portion Group Title
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    i understand shadowfriend, however i like to know people educational back ground so i know how capable they are in math, but with that been said, why arent satellit73 talking about my problem, he or she i talking about some space university!

    • 2 years ago
  91. 1234portion Group Title
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    it makes no sense !

    • 2 years ago
  92. estudier Group Title
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    We judge here by deeds not words...

    • 2 years ago
  93. 1234portion Group Title
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    come again e studier???

    • 2 years ago
  94. 1234portion Group Title
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    where did that come from?

    • 2 years ago
  95. estudier Group Title
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    That is my response to your persistent credential checks, has anyone asked for yours?

    • 2 years ago
  96. 1234portion Group Title
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    we should not judge period, who are we to do so?

    • 2 years ago
  97. 1234portion Group Title
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    you said we judge by deeds

    • 2 years ago
  98. estudier Group Title
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    Correct, then the credential checks serve no useful purpose...

    • 2 years ago
  99. shadowfiend Group Title
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    Credentials are de-emphasized on OpenStudy in favor of the community's esteem. Those who want to share them post their school and additional information in their profile.

    • 2 years ago
  100. 1234portion Group Title
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    keep in mind i am not being disrespectful, i alway say " if you dont mind me asking, what are your credentals" keep in mind i say " if you dont mind" in a case were people do mind they just dont have to answer!

    • 2 years ago
  101. 1234portion Group Title
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    no pressure

    • 2 years ago
  102. estudier Group Title
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    Well, doubtless u noticed that people didn't respond..?

    • 2 years ago
  103. shadowfiend Group Title
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    I think this particular discussion has run its course.

    • 2 years ago
  104. 1234portion Group Title
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    i can see now, sorry for hurting "the communities esteem"

    • 2 years ago
  105. 1234portion Group Title
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    back to my question

    • 2 years ago
  106. shadowfiend Group Title
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    It's all good :)

    • 2 years ago
  107. 1234portion Group Title
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    estudier you seem to be just about the most knowledgeable person here

    • 2 years ago
  108. 1234portion Group Title
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    no offence intended to anyone

    • 2 years ago
  109. 1234portion Group Title
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    i thought your answer was pretty good

    • 2 years ago
  110. estudier Group Title
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    I know a little, so do others, together we know a lot...

    • 2 years ago
  111. 1234portion Group Title
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    anyone else want to give it a shot?

    • 2 years ago
  112. 1234portion Group Title
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    to my question!

    • 2 years ago
  113. zbay Group Title
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    Is this just a theory based question? are you trying to disprove, or prove that this type of program works?

    • 2 years ago
  114. shadowfiend Group Title
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    You may also want to try asking in the computer science group at http://openstudy.com/groups/computer+science . Might get some interesting answers there (though not necessarily as fast as here).

    • 2 years ago
  115. 1234portion Group Title
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    thank shadowfriend, and to answer your question z bay, i want to see some ones approach on an algorithm or thought analyses, that is also why i am interested in credentials!

    • 2 years ago
  116. 1234portion Group Title
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    ok

    • 2 years ago
  117. 1234portion Group Title
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    ...

    • 2 years ago
  118. 1234portion Group Title
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    thanks for you help...i guess?

    • 2 years ago
  119. zbay Group Title
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    if you made a program that tested every x value of a function that goes to infinity you would have a never ending program

    • 2 years ago
  120. 1234portion Group Title
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    interesting, how did you conclude that zbay?

    • 2 years ago
  121. shadowfiend Group Title
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    Unless you developed a computer that could execute infinite operations in finite time, pretty much by definition it wouldn't end.

    • 2 years ago
  122. 1234portion Group Title
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    the difficulty with the halting problem lies in the requirement that the decision procedure must work for all programs and inputs.

    • 2 years ago
  123. 1234portion Group Title
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    by the way shadow friend, obviously you are knowledgeable about this website, how can i ask about question having to do with finance, i cant seem to get there through this website!

    • 2 years ago
  124. 1234portion Group Title
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    ?

    • 2 years ago
  125. 1234portion Group Title
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    any one?

    • 2 years ago
  126. zbay Group Title
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    whats the finance question?

    • 2 years ago
  127. 1234portion Group Title
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    ok

    • 2 years ago
  128. 1234portion Group Title
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    not to annoy anyone, but zbay would it be too mucn to ask for credentials pertaining to finance??

    • 2 years ago
  129. 1234portion Group Title
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    i want to know if you can answer a few accounting questions

    • 2 years ago
  130. zbay Group Title
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    i took accounting 1 and didn't like it but i will see if i can remember any of it

    • 2 years ago
  131. 1234portion Group Title
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    cool, and thank you very much by the way, ok here it goes!

    • 2 years ago
  132. 1234portion Group Title
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    how can one apply the accounting equation effectively towards a government agency's finances?

    • 2 years ago
  133. 1234portion Group Title
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    z bay?

    • 2 years ago
  134. 1234portion Group Title
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    i only know how to apply the accounting equation to a business entity

    • 2 years ago
  135. zbay Group Title
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    you got me

    • 2 years ago
  136. 1234portion Group Title
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    oh its ok

    • 2 years ago
  137. 1234portion Group Title
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    i like that you tried

    • 2 years ago
  138. 1234portion Group Title
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    but i thought there was a finance part to this website, how do i get there?

    • 2 years ago
  139. zbay Group Title
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    you can use a basic credit debit system depending on the sizze of the agency would determine the complexity of your accounting system you would have to have all thing equal and you should be good

    • 2 years ago
  140. zbay Group Title
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    if you hit the home button at the top you can go to the other groups

    • 2 years ago
  141. 1234portion Group Title
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    cool, however unlike a business entity, a gov agency does not receive revenue from a service, so in that case how do you then account for revenue for a gov agency?

    • 2 years ago
  142. zbay Group Title
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    well while a gov agency isn't a money making operation they still get funding by other gov agencys so this funding still needs to be accounted for. this would only change the name of the account it wouldn't change the basic process of the accounting process

    • 2 years ago
  143. 1234portion Group Title
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    oh!!!!

    • 2 years ago
  144. 1234portion Group Title
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    does that also mean gov agencies can not result in a net loss?

    • 2 years ago
  145. zbay Group Title
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    in theory you can't spend more money than you have but this doesn't apply to the goverment seeing as they can print more. so while i wouldn't call it a net loss we would call it a deficit.

    • 2 years ago
  146. 1234portion Group Title
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    makes scense

    • 2 years ago
  147. 1234portion Group Title
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    i think i am well equipped with knowledge from accounting, even thoughits from a business perspective, can i use that same knowledge to effectively do the accounting for a gov agency?

    • 2 years ago
  148. 1234portion Group Title
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    ???

    • 2 years ago
  149. zbay Group Title
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    Yea you can use the accounting process for the gov but your going to have a few problems. they spend lots of money and employ lots of people so your numbers are goign to be huge and collecting the data needed to account for all the money spent is going to be a pain also.

    • 2 years ago
  150. 1234portion Group Title
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    ok thank you very much for your insight i must leave no bye, and again thanks!

    • 2 years ago
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