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1234portion
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the Haulting question: say there was a computer program, decide whether the program finishes running or runs forever!?!?!
 3 years ago
 3 years ago
1234portion Group Title
the Haulting question: say there was a computer program, decide whether the program finishes running or runs forever!?!?!
 3 years ago
 3 years ago

This Question is Closed

dumbcow Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i dunno what program is it running? most programs would finish running but if it was stuck in a loop and had a infinite power source then who knows... :)
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
dumb cow, if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials???
 3 years ago

dumbcow Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
haha i have 1000 medals
 3 years ago

Thomas9 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
The halting problem is about a program that has as input a different program and gives as output whether or not it stops. Apparently it doesn't exist.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
um... do you have a formal educational back groud, dumb cow?
 3 years ago

dumbcow Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
are you really a student?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
thomas 9, that was an interesting responce
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
but consider the sketch of proof
 3 years ago

Owlfred Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
1234 what type of credentials are you looking for?
 3 years ago

Thomas9 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
The proof was something with using the initial program as input, but I forgot most of it.
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
My OS is supposed to run forever, doesn't though.
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
I have a Ph.D. Galactic Domination(see profile). How's that?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable
 3 years ago

dumbcow Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
galactic domination...!!?? interesting...
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
thomas 9
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
Not algorithmically decidable.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
Not recursive.
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
yes...I looked at many universities, but Planet Doom University had the program that i really wanted. Great profeessors
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
are you serious Zarkon?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i have not heard from you thomas 9?
 3 years ago

myininaya Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
galactic domination! i want that degree
 3 years ago

myininaya Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
sounds hot and spicy
 3 years ago

Ishaan94 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
Can I apply for Planet Doom University ?
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
yes...the degree is in high demand
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
estudier what do you think?
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
you can...but the off planet tuition is a killer
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
U have my opinion already.
 3 years ago

myininaya Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
what kindof question is this, 1234?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
well what about my sketch of proof?
 3 years ago

Ishaan94 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
http://www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF8&q=Planet+Doom+University
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
Where is it?
 3 years ago

Thomas9 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
the proof he means not the university of doom.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i am going to copy and repost my earlier responce
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
The proof sketch, not PDUni.
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
1234portion  I didn't see a sketch of a proof. You stated the problem correctly, however.
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
it is not the university of doom...that place it just a diploma mill. Planet Doom University is where I went
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
The proof itself, at least in the original form presented by Alan Turing, involves defining what a computer is and describing how it runs a program (the thennamed Turing machine is the machine that Turing posited for this). I believe you can also prove the same thing using the lambda calculus.
 3 years ago

Owlfred Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
1234 Portion, is this your first day on the site?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise here program i refers to the i program in an enumeratio of all the programs of a fixed turing complete model of computation.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
that was for you e studier
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
yes to your question owlfred
 3 years ago

Owlfred Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
okay cool, how did you find us?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
browsing... who are you exactly mr.owl?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
with the utmost respect of course
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
Heh. He's the OpenStudy mascot/moderator in chief.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
and who are you exactly??
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
The Chief Software Engineer at OpenStudy.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
maby you can answer my question?
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
Asked and answered.
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
I'm not sure what exactly your question is :) Do you want a full proof for the undecidability of the halting problem?
 3 years ago

Owlfred Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
Haha, yeah sorry. I'm a moderator on OpenStudy.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
well thank you for your input e studier
 3 years ago

myininaya Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i say let the computer program run forever
 3 years ago

imranmeah91 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
lol @ myin
 3 years ago

myininaya Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
and let the machines take over
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
10 print "hello" 20 goto 10 what about this
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
Q "decide whether" A algorithmically undecidable.
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
The question of the halting problem is for the general case. Given an arbitrary program, decide whether the program will end or not. It is impossible to write a program that will answer this question every time. It *is* possible to write a program that will answer this question sometimes.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
estudier you can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
shadow friend that is very intriguing, elaborate!
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
Not sure what you're asking. Can you give an example?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
just explain more in detail about you response shadow friend, and like i said to estudieryou can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
A more interesting question is quantifying undecidability, or complexity in general.
 3 years ago

satellite73 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
i am not sure my computer can even run as long as this thread
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
e studier do you know of any powerful computer programs that postulate very complex and abstract mathematical information?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
and if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials ??? estudier?
 3 years ago

satellite73 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
satelllite md phd psyd do dsw dch university of the galaxy (online)
 3 years ago

imranmeah91 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
how many were bought online
 3 years ago

satellite73 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
i got them for free well i did have to buy the candy bars
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
what is up with you satellite73???
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i dont find this funny
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
what ever happened to shadow friend?
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
University of the Galaxy ...oooohhh...very prestigious!!
 3 years ago

satellite73 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
yeah we used to kick your butts in lacrosse too !
 3 years ago

Zarkon Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.6
yeah...we suck. :(
 3 years ago

satellite73 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
girls team did anyway
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
All right, all right, stay on topic. If you want to talk about the University of the Galaxy, go do it in chat.
 3 years ago

satellite73 Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
was there a topic or just a credential check?
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
Heh. Ignore the credential check ;) The topic at hand is the halting problem.
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
As for my response, I'm just saying that the question of the halting problem is for the general case of any program. You can write a program that recognizes common patterns of programs that halt or don't. You can also decide the halting problem if you're not talking about a general purpose (or Turingcomplete) programming language.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i understand shadowfriend, however i like to know people educational back ground so i know how capable they are in math, but with that been said, why arent satellit73 talking about my problem, he or she i talking about some space university!
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
it makes no sense !
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
We judge here by deeds not words...
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
come again e studier???
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
where did that come from?
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
That is my response to your persistent credential checks, has anyone asked for yours?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
we should not judge period, who are we to do so?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
you said we judge by deeds
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
Correct, then the credential checks serve no useful purpose...
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
Credentials are deemphasized on OpenStudy in favor of the community's esteem. Those who want to share them post their school and additional information in their profile.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
keep in mind i am not being disrespectful, i alway say " if you dont mind me asking, what are your credentals" keep in mind i say " if you dont mind" in a case were people do mind they just dont have to answer!
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
no pressure
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
Well, doubtless u noticed that people didn't respond..?
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
I think this particular discussion has run its course.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i can see now, sorry for hurting "the communities esteem"
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
back to my question
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
It's all good :)
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
estudier you seem to be just about the most knowledgeable person here
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
no offence intended to anyone
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i thought your answer was pretty good
 3 years ago

estudier Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.2
I know a little, so do others, together we know a lot...
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
anyone else want to give it a shot?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
to my question!
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
Is this just a theory based question? are you trying to disprove, or prove that this type of program works?
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
You may also want to try asking in the computer science group at http://openstudy.com/groups/computer+science . Might get some interesting answers there (though not necessarily as fast as here).
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
thank shadowfriend, and to answer your question z bay, i want to see some ones approach on an algorithm or thought analyses, that is also why i am interested in credentials!
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
thanks for you help...i guess?
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
if you made a program that tested every x value of a function that goes to infinity you would have a never ending program
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
interesting, how did you conclude that zbay?
 3 years ago

shadowfiend Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
Unless you developed a computer that could execute infinite operations in finite time, pretty much by definition it wouldn't end.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
the difficulty with the halting problem lies in the requirement that the decision procedure must work for all programs and inputs.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
by the way shadow friend, obviously you are knowledgeable about this website, how can i ask about question having to do with finance, i cant seem to get there through this website!
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
any one?
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
whats the finance question?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
not to annoy anyone, but zbay would it be too mucn to ask for credentials pertaining to finance??
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i want to know if you can answer a few accounting questions
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
i took accounting 1 and didn't like it but i will see if i can remember any of it
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
cool, and thank you very much by the way, ok here it goes!
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
how can one apply the accounting equation effectively towards a government agency's finances?
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i only know how to apply the accounting equation to a business entity
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
oh its ok
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i like that you tried
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
but i thought there was a finance part to this website, how do i get there?
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
you can use a basic credit debit system depending on the sizze of the agency would determine the complexity of your accounting system you would have to have all thing equal and you should be good
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
if you hit the home button at the top you can go to the other groups
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
cool, however unlike a business entity, a gov agency does not receive revenue from a service, so in that case how do you then account for revenue for a gov agency?
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
well while a gov agency isn't a money making operation they still get funding by other gov agencys so this funding still needs to be accounted for. this would only change the name of the account it wouldn't change the basic process of the accounting process
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
does that also mean gov agencies can not result in a net loss?
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
in theory you can't spend more money than you have but this doesn't apply to the goverment seeing as they can print more. so while i wouldn't call it a net loss we would call it a deficit.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
makes scense
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
i think i am well equipped with knowledge from accounting, even thoughits from a business perspective, can i use that same knowledge to effectively do the accounting for a gov agency?
 3 years ago

zbay Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.1
Yea you can use the accounting process for the gov but your going to have a few problems. they spend lots of money and employ lots of people so your numbers are goign to be huge and collecting the data needed to account for all the money spent is going to be a pain also.
 3 years ago

1234portion Group TitleBest ResponseYou've already chosen the best response.0
ok thank you very much for your insight i must leave no bye, and again thanks!
 3 years ago
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