anonymous
  • anonymous
the Haulting question: say there was a computer program, decide whether the program finishes running or runs forever!?!?!
Mathematics
  • Stacey Warren - Expert brainly.com
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jamiebookeater
  • jamiebookeater
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dumbcow
  • dumbcow
i dunno what program is it running? most programs would finish running but if it was stuck in a loop and had a infinite power source then who knows... :)
anonymous
  • anonymous
dumb cow, if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials???
dumbcow
  • dumbcow
haha i have 1000 medals

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anonymous
  • anonymous
haha
anonymous
  • anonymous
The halting problem is about a program that has as input a different program and gives as output whether or not it stops. Apparently it doesn't exist.
anonymous
  • anonymous
um... do you have a formal educational back groud, dumb cow?
dumbcow
  • dumbcow
are you really a student?
anonymous
  • anonymous
thomas 9, that was an interesting responce
anonymous
  • anonymous
but consider the sketch of proof
Owlfred
  • Owlfred
1234 what type of credentials are you looking for?
anonymous
  • anonymous
The proof was something with using the initial program as input, but I forgot most of it.
anonymous
  • anonymous
My OS is supposed to run forever, doesn't though.
anonymous
  • anonymous
lol
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
I have a Ph.D. Galactic Domination(see profile). How's that?
anonymous
  • anonymous
the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable
dumbcow
  • dumbcow
galactic domination...!!?? interesting...
anonymous
  • anonymous
thomas 9
anonymous
  • anonymous
Not algorithmically decidable.
anonymous
  • anonymous
yes?
anonymous
  • anonymous
h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise
anonymous
  • anonymous
Not recursive.
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
yes...I looked at many universities, but Planet Doom University had the program that i really wanted. Great profeessors
anonymous
  • anonymous
are you serious Zarkon?
anonymous
  • anonymous
i have not heard from you thomas 9?
myininaya
  • myininaya
galactic domination! i want that degree
myininaya
  • myininaya
sounds hot and spicy
anonymous
  • anonymous
Can I apply for Planet Doom University ?
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
yes...the degree is in high demand
anonymous
  • anonymous
estudier what do you think?
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
you can...but the off planet tuition is a killer
anonymous
  • anonymous
U have my opinion already.
myininaya
  • myininaya
what kindof question is this, 1234?
anonymous
  • anonymous
well what about my sketch of proof?
anonymous
  • anonymous
http://www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Planet+Doom+University
anonymous
  • anonymous
Where is it?
anonymous
  • anonymous
the proof he means not the university of doom.
anonymous
  • anonymous
i am going to copy and repost my earlier responce
anonymous
  • anonymous
the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable
anonymous
  • anonymous
The proof sketch, not PDUni.
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
1234portion -- I didn't see a sketch of a proof. You stated the problem correctly, however.
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
it is not the university of doom...that place it just a diploma mill. Planet Doom University is where I went
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
The proof itself, at least in the original form presented by Alan Turing, involves defining what a computer is and describing how it runs a program (the then-named Turing machine is the machine that Turing posited for this). I believe you can also prove the same thing using the lambda calculus.
Owlfred
  • Owlfred
1234 Portion, is this your first day on the site?
anonymous
  • anonymous
h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise here program i refers to the i program in an enumeratio of all the programs of a fixed turing complete model of computation.
anonymous
  • anonymous
that was for you e studier
anonymous
  • anonymous
yes to your question owlfred
Owlfred
  • Owlfred
okay cool, how did you find us?
anonymous
  • anonymous
browsing... who are you exactly mr.owl?
anonymous
  • anonymous
with the utmost respect of course
anonymous
  • anonymous
...
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
Heh. He's the OpenStudy mascot/moderator in chief.
anonymous
  • anonymous
and who are you exactly??
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
The Chief Software Engineer at OpenStudy.
anonymous
  • anonymous
cool
anonymous
  • anonymous
maby you can answer my question?
anonymous
  • anonymous
Asked and answered.
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
I'm not sure what exactly your question is :) Do you want a full proof for the undecidability of the halting problem?
Owlfred
  • Owlfred
Haha, yeah sorry. I'm a moderator on OpenStudy.
anonymous
  • anonymous
well thank you for your input e studier
myininaya
  • myininaya
i say let the computer program run forever
myininaya
  • myininaya
lol
anonymous
  • anonymous
lol @ myin
myininaya
  • myininaya
and let the machines take over
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
10 print "hello" 20 goto 10 what about this
anonymous
  • anonymous
Q "decide whether" A algorithmically undecidable.
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
The question of the halting problem is for the general case. Given an arbitrary program, decide whether the program will end or not. It is impossible to write a program that will answer this question every time. It *is* possible to write a program that will answer this question sometimes.
anonymous
  • anonymous
estudier you can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???
anonymous
  • anonymous
shadow friend that is very intriguing, elaborate!
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
Not sure what you're asking. Can you give an example?
anonymous
  • anonymous
just explain more in detail about you response shadow friend, and like i said to estudieryou can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???
anonymous
  • anonymous
A more interesting question is quantifying undecidability, or complexity in general.
anonymous
  • anonymous
i am not sure my computer can even run as long as this thread
anonymous
  • anonymous
e studier do you know of any powerful computer programs that postulate very complex and abstract mathematical information?
anonymous
  • anonymous
and if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials ??? estudier?
anonymous
  • anonymous
satelllite md phd psyd do dsw dch university of the galaxy (online)
anonymous
  • anonymous
how many were bought online
anonymous
  • anonymous
i got them for free well i did have to buy the candy bars
anonymous
  • anonymous
what is up with you satellite73???
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
lol
anonymous
  • anonymous
i dont find this funny
anonymous
  • anonymous
what ever happened to shadow friend?
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
University of the Galaxy ...oooohhh...very prestigious!!
anonymous
  • anonymous
yeah we used to kick your butts in lacrosse too !
Zarkon
  • Zarkon
yeah...we suck. :(
anonymous
  • anonymous
girls team did anyway
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
All right, all right, stay on topic. If you want to talk about the University of the Galaxy, go do it in chat.
anonymous
  • anonymous
was there a topic or just a credential check?
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
Heh. Ignore the credential check ;) The topic at hand is the halting problem.
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
As for my response, I'm just saying that the question of the halting problem is for the general case of any program. You can write a program that recognizes common patterns of programs that halt or don't. You can also decide the halting problem if you're not talking about a general purpose (or Turing-complete) programming language.
anonymous
  • anonymous
i understand shadowfriend, however i like to know people educational back ground so i know how capable they are in math, but with that been said, why arent satellit73 talking about my problem, he or she i talking about some space university!
anonymous
  • anonymous
it makes no sense !
anonymous
  • anonymous
We judge here by deeds not words...
anonymous
  • anonymous
come again e studier???
anonymous
  • anonymous
where did that come from?
anonymous
  • anonymous
That is my response to your persistent credential checks, has anyone asked for yours?
anonymous
  • anonymous
we should not judge period, who are we to do so?
anonymous
  • anonymous
you said we judge by deeds
anonymous
  • anonymous
Correct, then the credential checks serve no useful purpose...
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
Credentials are de-emphasized on OpenStudy in favor of the community's esteem. Those who want to share them post their school and additional information in their profile.
anonymous
  • anonymous
keep in mind i am not being disrespectful, i alway say " if you dont mind me asking, what are your credentals" keep in mind i say " if you dont mind" in a case were people do mind they just dont have to answer!
anonymous
  • anonymous
no pressure
anonymous
  • anonymous
Well, doubtless u noticed that people didn't respond..?
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
I think this particular discussion has run its course.
anonymous
  • anonymous
i can see now, sorry for hurting "the communities esteem"
anonymous
  • anonymous
back to my question
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
It's all good :)
anonymous
  • anonymous
estudier you seem to be just about the most knowledgeable person here
anonymous
  • anonymous
no offence intended to anyone
anonymous
  • anonymous
i thought your answer was pretty good
anonymous
  • anonymous
I know a little, so do others, together we know a lot...
anonymous
  • anonymous
anyone else want to give it a shot?
anonymous
  • anonymous
to my question!
anonymous
  • anonymous
Is this just a theory based question? are you trying to disprove, or prove that this type of program works?
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
You may also want to try asking in the computer science group at http://openstudy.com/groups/computer+science . Might get some interesting answers there (though not necessarily as fast as here).
anonymous
  • anonymous
thank shadowfriend, and to answer your question z bay, i want to see some ones approach on an algorithm or thought analyses, that is also why i am interested in credentials!
anonymous
  • anonymous
ok
anonymous
  • anonymous
...
anonymous
  • anonymous
thanks for you help...i guess?
anonymous
  • anonymous
if you made a program that tested every x value of a function that goes to infinity you would have a never ending program
anonymous
  • anonymous
interesting, how did you conclude that zbay?
shadowfiend
  • shadowfiend
Unless you developed a computer that could execute infinite operations in finite time, pretty much by definition it wouldn't end.
anonymous
  • anonymous
the difficulty with the halting problem lies in the requirement that the decision procedure must work for all programs and inputs.
anonymous
  • anonymous
by the way shadow friend, obviously you are knowledgeable about this website, how can i ask about question having to do with finance, i cant seem to get there through this website!
anonymous
  • anonymous
?
anonymous
  • anonymous
any one?
anonymous
  • anonymous
whats the finance question?
anonymous
  • anonymous
ok
anonymous
  • anonymous
not to annoy anyone, but zbay would it be too mucn to ask for credentials pertaining to finance??
anonymous
  • anonymous
i want to know if you can answer a few accounting questions
anonymous
  • anonymous
i took accounting 1 and didn't like it but i will see if i can remember any of it
anonymous
  • anonymous
cool, and thank you very much by the way, ok here it goes!
anonymous
  • anonymous
how can one apply the accounting equation effectively towards a government agency's finances?
anonymous
  • anonymous
z bay?
anonymous
  • anonymous
i only know how to apply the accounting equation to a business entity
anonymous
  • anonymous
you got me
anonymous
  • anonymous
oh its ok
anonymous
  • anonymous
i like that you tried
anonymous
  • anonymous
but i thought there was a finance part to this website, how do i get there?
anonymous
  • anonymous
you can use a basic credit debit system depending on the sizze of the agency would determine the complexity of your accounting system you would have to have all thing equal and you should be good
anonymous
  • anonymous
if you hit the home button at the top you can go to the other groups
anonymous
  • anonymous
cool, however unlike a business entity, a gov agency does not receive revenue from a service, so in that case how do you then account for revenue for a gov agency?
anonymous
  • anonymous
well while a gov agency isn't a money making operation they still get funding by other gov agencys so this funding still needs to be accounted for. this would only change the name of the account it wouldn't change the basic process of the accounting process
anonymous
  • anonymous
oh!!!!
anonymous
  • anonymous
does that also mean gov agencies can not result in a net loss?
anonymous
  • anonymous
in theory you can't spend more money than you have but this doesn't apply to the goverment seeing as they can print more. so while i wouldn't call it a net loss we would call it a deficit.
anonymous
  • anonymous
makes scense
anonymous
  • anonymous
i think i am well equipped with knowledge from accounting, even thoughits from a business perspective, can i use that same knowledge to effectively do the accounting for a gov agency?
anonymous
  • anonymous
???
anonymous
  • anonymous
Yea you can use the accounting process for the gov but your going to have a few problems. they spend lots of money and employ lots of people so your numbers are goign to be huge and collecting the data needed to account for all the money spent is going to be a pain also.
anonymous
  • anonymous
ok thank you very much for your insight i must leave no bye, and again thanks!

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