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the Haulting question: say there was a computer program, decide whether the program finishes running or runs forever!?!?!

Mathematics
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i dunno what program is it running? most programs would finish running but if it was stuck in a loop and had a infinite power source then who knows... :)
dumb cow, if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials???
haha i have 1000 medals

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Other answers:

haha
The halting problem is about a program that has as input a different program and gives as output whether or not it stops. Apparently it doesn't exist.
um... do you have a formal educational back groud, dumb cow?
are you really a student?
thomas 9, that was an interesting responce
but consider the sketch of proof
1234 what type of credentials are you looking for?
The proof was something with using the initial program as input, but I forgot most of it.
My OS is supposed to run forever, doesn't though.
lol
I have a Ph.D. Galactic Domination(see profile). How's that?
the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable
galactic domination...!!?? interesting...
thomas 9
Not algorithmically decidable.
yes?
h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise
Not recursive.
yes...I looked at many universities, but Planet Doom University had the program that i really wanted. Great profeessors
are you serious Zarkon?
i have not heard from you thomas 9?
galactic domination! i want that degree
sounds hot and spicy
Can I apply for Planet Doom University ?
yes...the degree is in high demand
estudier what do you think?
you can...but the off planet tuition is a killer
U have my opinion already.
what kindof question is this, 1234?
well what about my sketch of proof?
http://www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Planet+Doom+University
Where is it?
the proof he means not the university of doom.
i am going to copy and repost my earlier responce
the proof shows there is no total computable function that decides whether an arbitrary program i halts on arbitrary input x: that is, the function h is not computable
The proof sketch, not PDUni.
1234portion -- I didn't see a sketch of a proof. You stated the problem correctly, however.
it is not the university of doom...that place it just a diploma mill. Planet Doom University is where I went
The proof itself, at least in the original form presented by Alan Turing, involves defining what a computer is and describing how it runs a program (the then-named Turing machine is the machine that Turing posited for this). I believe you can also prove the same thing using the lambda calculus.
1234 Portion, is this your first day on the site?
h(i,x)={1if program i halts on inputx, 0 otherwise here program i refers to the i program in an enumeratio of all the programs of a fixed turing complete model of computation.
that was for you e studier
yes to your question owlfred
okay cool, how did you find us?
browsing... who are you exactly mr.owl?
with the utmost respect of course
...
Heh. He's the OpenStudy mascot/moderator in chief.
and who are you exactly??
The Chief Software Engineer at OpenStudy.
cool
maby you can answer my question?
Asked and answered.
I'm not sure what exactly your question is :) Do you want a full proof for the undecidability of the halting problem?
Haha, yeah sorry. I'm a moderator on OpenStudy.
well thank you for your input e studier
i say let the computer program run forever
lol
lol @ myin
and let the machines take over
10 print "hello" 20 goto 10 what about this
Q "decide whether" A algorithmically undecidable.
The question of the halting problem is for the general case. Given an arbitrary program, decide whether the program will end or not. It is impossible to write a program that will answer this question every time. It *is* possible to write a program that will answer this question sometimes.
estudier you can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???
shadow friend that is very intriguing, elaborate!
Not sure what you're asking. Can you give an example?
just explain more in detail about you response shadow friend, and like i said to estudieryou can try to single out possible values for a total computable function, if you have all the variables and an algorithm in place, cant you???
A more interesting question is quantifying undecidability, or complexity in general.
i am not sure my computer can even run as long as this thread
e studier do you know of any powerful computer programs that postulate very complex and abstract mathematical information?
and if you dont mind me asking what are your credentials ??? estudier?
satelllite md phd psyd do dsw dch university of the galaxy (online)
how many were bought online
i got them for free well i did have to buy the candy bars
what is up with you satellite73???
lol
i dont find this funny
what ever happened to shadow friend?
University of the Galaxy ...oooohhh...very prestigious!!
yeah we used to kick your butts in lacrosse too !
yeah...we suck. :(
girls team did anyway
All right, all right, stay on topic. If you want to talk about the University of the Galaxy, go do it in chat.
was there a topic or just a credential check?
Heh. Ignore the credential check ;) The topic at hand is the halting problem.
As for my response, I'm just saying that the question of the halting problem is for the general case of any program. You can write a program that recognizes common patterns of programs that halt or don't. You can also decide the halting problem if you're not talking about a general purpose (or Turing-complete) programming language.
i understand shadowfriend, however i like to know people educational back ground so i know how capable they are in math, but with that been said, why arent satellit73 talking about my problem, he or she i talking about some space university!
it makes no sense !
We judge here by deeds not words...
come again e studier???
where did that come from?
That is my response to your persistent credential checks, has anyone asked for yours?
we should not judge period, who are we to do so?
you said we judge by deeds
Correct, then the credential checks serve no useful purpose...
Credentials are de-emphasized on OpenStudy in favor of the community's esteem. Those who want to share them post their school and additional information in their profile.
keep in mind i am not being disrespectful, i alway say " if you dont mind me asking, what are your credentals" keep in mind i say " if you dont mind" in a case were people do mind they just dont have to answer!
no pressure
Well, doubtless u noticed that people didn't respond..?
I think this particular discussion has run its course.
i can see now, sorry for hurting "the communities esteem"
back to my question
It's all good :)
estudier you seem to be just about the most knowledgeable person here
no offence intended to anyone
i thought your answer was pretty good
I know a little, so do others, together we know a lot...
anyone else want to give it a shot?
to my question!
Is this just a theory based question? are you trying to disprove, or prove that this type of program works?
You may also want to try asking in the computer science group at http://openstudy.com/groups/computer+science . Might get some interesting answers there (though not necessarily as fast as here).
thank shadowfriend, and to answer your question z bay, i want to see some ones approach on an algorithm or thought analyses, that is also why i am interested in credentials!
ok
...
thanks for you help...i guess?
if you made a program that tested every x value of a function that goes to infinity you would have a never ending program
interesting, how did you conclude that zbay?
Unless you developed a computer that could execute infinite operations in finite time, pretty much by definition it wouldn't end.
the difficulty with the halting problem lies in the requirement that the decision procedure must work for all programs and inputs.
by the way shadow friend, obviously you are knowledgeable about this website, how can i ask about question having to do with finance, i cant seem to get there through this website!
?
any one?
whats the finance question?
ok
not to annoy anyone, but zbay would it be too mucn to ask for credentials pertaining to finance??
i want to know if you can answer a few accounting questions
i took accounting 1 and didn't like it but i will see if i can remember any of it
cool, and thank you very much by the way, ok here it goes!
how can one apply the accounting equation effectively towards a government agency's finances?
z bay?
i only know how to apply the accounting equation to a business entity
you got me
oh its ok
i like that you tried
but i thought there was a finance part to this website, how do i get there?
you can use a basic credit debit system depending on the sizze of the agency would determine the complexity of your accounting system you would have to have all thing equal and you should be good
if you hit the home button at the top you can go to the other groups
cool, however unlike a business entity, a gov agency does not receive revenue from a service, so in that case how do you then account for revenue for a gov agency?
well while a gov agency isn't a money making operation they still get funding by other gov agencys so this funding still needs to be accounted for. this would only change the name of the account it wouldn't change the basic process of the accounting process
oh!!!!
does that also mean gov agencies can not result in a net loss?
in theory you can't spend more money than you have but this doesn't apply to the goverment seeing as they can print more. so while i wouldn't call it a net loss we would call it a deficit.
makes scense
i think i am well equipped with knowledge from accounting, even thoughits from a business perspective, can i use that same knowledge to effectively do the accounting for a gov agency?
???
Yea you can use the accounting process for the gov but your going to have a few problems. they spend lots of money and employ lots of people so your numbers are goign to be huge and collecting the data needed to account for all the money spent is going to be a pain also.
ok thank you very much for your insight i must leave no bye, and again thanks!

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