## anonymous 4 years ago If CPUs were infinitely fast, and we had infinitely fast and infinitely large memory, would we benefit from optimization?

1. anonymous

So you're talking about the point that computers pass us? What's that called again, (trying to think)

2. anonymous

The technological singularity?

3. anonymous
4. anonymous

There you go

5. dumbcow

if you had a infinite amount of money, would you benefit from managing your money ??

6. anonymous

@dumbcow maybe not

7. anonymous

Ohh, good one dumbcow (I always feel uncomfortable typing your name btw) ;)

8. dumbcow

isn't the point of optimization is to maximize limited resources....therefore optimization is obsolete with infinite resources...in my opinion

9. anonymous

So, theoretically, optimization is the maximization of infinite resources, correct? Thus would be unnecessary in your scenario

10. anonymous
11. anonymous

haha, beat me to it dumbcow

12. anonymous

Is there any resource on earth that's infinite?

13. anonymous

no

14. anonymous

nothing on earth is infinite if the earth itself will have a set limit of existence itself...

15. anonymous

What about software that can be infinitely copied/reused with no sort of degredation, or even ideas?

16. Xishem

Well, given that a resource must take up some sort of space, an infinite resource would take up infinite volume.

17. anonymous

so, does a resource have to be tangible then?

18. Xishem

Not necessarily. I feel that all resources take up some sort of "space", whether that space is volume or not. Let me try to rephrase.

19. anonymous

software and ideas certainly do take space

20. anonymous

i was referin to material of course

21. anonymous

Ideas? How so? @agdg

22. Xishem

Well, ideas can be stored in a few places: neurons, text, etc. But none of these is infinite.

23. anonymous

@cshalvey don't they occupy minds? Don't minds have limited storage? I think the mind is a little different though...

24. Xishem

An idea can exist without being stored in any of those places, but if it's not stored in any one of those places, does it actually exist? Since no one knows the idea?

25. anonymous

right, the mind is absurdly hard to quantify - we have estimates, but no real hard data, ie GB of storage for instance

26. anonymous

Interesting Xishem...

27. anonymous

an idea can be used :P

28. anonymous

without many thought to it

29. anonymous

Also, if I have an idea, and I forget - does that idea necessarily cease to exist?

30. Xishem

Crazy... I wonder if it's stored somewhere in the folds of your brain in some neurons somewhere that you just can't access.

31. anonymous

Philosophy on the Math group :-D

32. Xishem

Or I wonder if it's possible to completely erase an idea or thought from your mind?

33. anonymous

i think it has more to do with psychology :P

34. anonymous

I think so Xishem - for instance studies on dreams, etc are more puzzling than helpful

35. anonymous

if you are talking about the mind

36. anonymous

Also deja vu

37. anonymous

deja vu :-D

38. anonymous

Imma gonna give this question a medal - off topic be damned ;)

39. anonymous

I thought deja vu was simply a glitch in your memory function or something...

40. anonymous

True, but it's also rooted a lot in memory they've found. Which is weird - because it's forward focused (present experiences 'remembered')

41. Xishem

I'd be interested to see how you could affect certain memories that are stored in the brain. For instance, if you (physically) removed a neuron from a neuron group for a given memory, how would it affect that memory? Would it be like corrupted files on a computer, where they just couldn't be read, or would some completely unrelated memory take its place?

42. anonymous

I think it's more organic than that - the concept of 'relearning' how to walk for instance - neurons regrow in new paths...

43. anonymous

And then there's actual memory loss - amnesia - which spontaneously can go away, or never go away

44. Xishem

Like if you pull the last bit off of 1011, it changes from 11 to 5. cshalvey: Hmm, possibly. It'd be interesting to see how different memory groups relate to eachother.

45. anonymous

memory loss is actually caused by the brain becoming smoother

46. anonymous

less wrinkly

47. anonymous

48. anonymous

mhm

49. anonymous

humans are different would be different computers where humans can relearn things humans can forget things and remember again computers they hold things in for a terminally if they break ( they are doomed forever until fixed)

50. Xishem

That's just because the system that humans use to find data is... primitive compared to computers.

51. anonymous

well, this was fun everyone - but I'm off to bed - knackered great question adgd, interesting convo mth, Xishem, dumbcow

52. anonymous

k bb gngn

53. anonymous

lol with so many ppl answering i felt like i did something wrong

54. anonymous

A quick responce to the question "what is infinite on earth?" Data.

55. anonymous

.....

56. Xishem

That's a pretty broad term. Specify?

57. anonymous

Or was that already said? :/

58. anonymous

Well, if you think about it, everything around us is made up of data. Specificaly atoms and cells.

59. Xishem

So are there infinite atoms and cells?

60. anonymous

Technically... yes. Untill we find a limit to space, and time. :|

61. Xishem

We haven't NOT found a limit. I don't think you can automatically assume that space and time are infinite.

62. anonymous

And then there is Pi ($\pi$). Which to my current understanding is infinite. Thereby providing infinite data.

63. anonymous

Ah! And Energy is also infinite.

64. anonymous

isn't the concept of infinite and infinitesimal relative?

65. anonymous

lol numbers

66. Xishem

Just because pi has an infinite number of digits doesn't mean all of those digits are stored somewhere. Pi is only an abstraction humans have made for the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. It has no meaning.

67. anonymous

energy is not infinite

68. anonymous

mth3v4, Energy cannot be created or destroyed. So in theory, we will never gain more, or lose any. Doesn't that make it infinite?

69. anonymous

I am talking in reference to the physical world. Imagine a creature so small lets say made up of just an element or nearly an element's size wouldn't the term infinitesimal and infinite have different meaning for the creature.

70. anonymous

according to the laws of newton not so

71. anonymous

it is not a matter of destroying or not destroying

72. Xishem

The energy will be around for an infinite amount of time, but you don't have infinite energy.

73. anonymous

@Xishern, I understand that it's nothing more than a numeric value, I am just trying to think of concepts that are infinite.

74. Xishem

If you have 5 everlasting dollar bills, you still can't pay for something that costs \$10.

75. anonymous

76. anonymous

i am not reffering to conservation of energy

77. Xishem

Energy would be infinite resource, certainly.

78. Xishem

*an infinite resource

79. Xishem

However, it's not infinite on Earth.

80. anonymous

True.

81. Xishem

Well, actually, assume that Earth were a closed system (which it's not). No energy can escape, so therefore, you could continue using the energy over and over, yes?

82. anonymous

Correct.

83. Xishem

But it's impossible to create a completely closed system.

84. anonymous

i was reffering to law 1 of motion i think i forgot

85. anonymous

its one of them :P

86. anonymous

closed system infinite earth i would agree infinite energy

87. anonymous

but world going to end who know when (not in my time of course)

88. anonymous

lol this question became such an attraction

89. anonymous

well i gtg now nice talking to you every1 :D

90. anonymous

mth3v4, I have gone over Newtons laws, and I cant seem to find the one you are refering to...

91. anonymous

Isee, well perhaps we can discuss this later :/

92. anonymous

There was a interesting question that this question reminds me of, "Given an infinite number of monkeys and an infinite amount of time, would one of them write Hamlet?"

93. Xishem

With no typewriters, of course not.

94. anonymous

Indeed, and I suppose the correct answer would be yes (if they did have typewriters), It's just that it would take "forever".

95. Xishem

Hell, one monkey given a typewriter and infinite time would write Hamlet.

96. anonymous

Yes this is actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

97. anonymous

Now the question is, would it take a shorter time if there is one monkey? Or a longer time if there were many?

98. Xishem

Well, if you have two monkeys whacking away at it, you would get the result you wanted, on average, twice as fast.

99. anonymous

But as the article says, there is a 1in15 625 000 000 chance to type the word "banana"

100. anonymous

I shudder to think of the chance to type one of Shakespeare's works.

101. Xishem

The probability to get Hamlet right the first time is:$3.4 × 10^{183,946}$Incredible.

102. anonymous

I guess we will be waiting a while then.

103. Xishem

What about this: Would one monkey with a typewriter, typing at an infinite speed, for an infinitesimally small amount of time be able to do it?

104. anonymous

yes sure, given an *infinite* time anything is possible

105. anonymous

Well, the chances of the typewriter surviving that encounter...

106. Xishem

Anything? What about a state of the universe that cannot exist?

107. anonymous

Well, now you are proposing something more philosophical. I don't believe either of us will be able to answer that one.

108. Xishem

For instance, some state of the universe where a different amount of matter and energy exist compared to this state.

109. anonymous

Go on?

110. Xishem

Given no amount of time (even infinite), that state of the universe is not possible.

111. anonymous

So, you're saying if some matter and energy just vanished? Indeed. perhaps that wouldn't be possible

112. Xishem

It is, however, possible that I'm ranting with little-to-no cognizance of anything, as it's 3AM here.

113. anonymous

But we are working unknown values. We cannot draw a logical and solid end from this.

114. anonymous

Aye, and it's about time I returned to my studies. I should go.

115. anonymous

Perhaps we can discuss infinite values another time. I bid all of ye farewell.