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Groups for chatting and study...since they have to be academic. And they can't be negative. I'm all for it. Anyone else? Colm, you said you'd discuss it...Want me to go on like I was in chat?
State what you'd like to happen - how you would like OpenStudy to change, and see if there is support for the idea. Also, remember that we don't make decisions solely on what people want - part of the process is what is best for OpenStudy, and what fits with our vision (education). So, go ahead :)
Okay, this group I made was about animals because my friend wanted a group like that. It was gonna be used for sharing facts and such about animals, or pets people owned. It was for me and about..5 or 6 other people. Friends. Because we wanted a group to ourselves where we wouldn't have random people we didn't even know coming and joining a convo that they knew nothing about. House Of Night was made for me and TheWriter so we could talk and no one knew. Me and her talked about personal things(i guess you could call it that). And she needed some support and help. I gave it to her. But, she didn't want everyone in the other chats hearing about her life issues. And, like I said, with messages, I can never remember what was being discussed, therefore, I find chat better, even if its not more private.
I like agents idea. Despite this is for learning for education solely, people like to mix it up.
we could make a group for ppl who plya certin sports or have certin hobbies
Even if it's "learning a sport". It's still learning and learning is educational. They do have sports in school
yeah and they could help with ways to practice and stuff or we could have a book group for ppl who read
If there could be moderated groups for study AND chat, OS would be better(Not that it isn't great, dont get me wrong). But, that small group of friend could have the same interests as each other(like the Animals group) and they would chat to talk about it, and as study, they could exchange anything they wanted to share that they knew about animals. I was in a group, m very first group actually, called K12 Club. It was for people in K12(my school). I left for reasons, and I went back. No one is actually using the group anymore, but, it was both for chatting and study. We would help each other out with Math or English. I know there is a maths group, BUT, with this small group of K12 kids, we got help quicker. (And since it was back in about January/February we were able to ask multiple questions[and spam :D] to get help on multiple questions). OS has changed a lot, for the better I understand that, but now I dont ask for help in Algebra because the people who help in maths group dont always learn stuff the same way I do in class.@Hero was helping me just last night with math. And the way he was explaining it was NOT the same way I learned in Algebra class(I didn't pay attention much, but still...) In K12, we all knew the same stuff since we were in the same class. With other groups, as @Katiebugg has just mentioned about sports/hobbies, it would be people who know about the subject(i.e Animals group). It made it easier to learn when I was familiar with the people, because in maths group, it gets confusing. I know, I'm going in circles about this, but that helps me a lot... Sorry about that. So, say there was a group for Soccer. Not everyone has to join that. Only people who like soccer or want to know the spots and stuff. Educational AND chatting. Thats what I mean. The Animals group is still up, and if more people were in it, along with a Mod or two, study and chatting. No problem. And its being moderated so it wouldn't be a negative group. Even without the Mods in it, it wasn't a negative group. We chatted and taught each other stuff. One girl in it had a really sick dog. Me and one other person helped her out. We knew what to do. Her dog got better. Plus, she learned something new. Groups like House Of Night and How To Get Rich Quick...Well, I'll admit they weren't being educational at all. House Of Night was used, like I've said, for TheWriter and I because she needed my help with stuff that she didn't want everyone to know about. How To Get Rich Quick was just a bad group. We didn't follow the CoC and we talked about inappropriate things. Guilty as charged. But, its the fact that the group was just for US that we joined. That group is gonna be deleted, I get that... No problem. House Of Night on the other hand...well, I'd prefer that one NOT to be deleted, but I guess it doesn't matter because now there are about 10-12 people in it. No longer private, as it was intended. If its deleted, I understand why. I just want a group where I can discuss things with a friend and I wont have a lot of people barging in. That's my point. So, both educational AND for chat. Is that really a problem?
I dont think its a problem.
I really hope people read that. My wrist is still screwed up(some people know why but I wont explain to those who dont since now isn't the time) and I dont want to have written all that(and possibly messed up my wrist more :P) for nothing.
Agent Sniffles, now I agree more with your idea. Education has to be appropiate, and id, and it's also good that it can be misc.
BUT! Appropriate. has to be.
turing dont reply lol
Bambi, hush. me and Turing had a talk...he knows how I am about writing lol. I wanna see what he's got to say.
I was joking :)
O_o i cant say a thing
So, while I get your point @Agent_Sniffles - let's be honest. The name of the groups is irrelevant - the purpose of these groups is to allow smaller groups of people to use the chat functionality, without it being fully public, such as in the Math group for instance. Thus, this isn't a discussion about creating groups around topics of interest, shared interests, etc - it's about the idea of creating groups solely for social purposes, right? I think that's what you're getting at, which is fine - I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page. Additionally, we recently had a lot of people request the removal of chats altogether, because it doesn't serve an educational purpose. Myself and the rest of OpenStudy resisted this idea, in part because we *do* believe there is value in social outlets on OpenStudy. The question now I believe is where is the middle ground?
(Okay, I'm not writing so much now...) but...yeah social purposes along with educational purposes. I think I explained that a bit weird. Not sure... And, Turing told me about the chat thing...I have to admit, I both agree AND disagree with people about them. These groups I'm talking about wouldn't be like House Of Night. They would really be educational and helpful. I'd let you see the Animals group and how we helped out that girl, but the questions were deleted... Now what do you mean by 'middle group'?
My point is you are asking for the ability to create a group so you and 3-5 other friends can chat semi-privately. So, expand that to our entire user base and you are talking about hundreds of groups - which isn't really feasible, is it? Also, I can assure you that in all my experience with groups of this nature there is rarely, if ever, anything educational happening - including in the 'Animals' group. I'm not saying that to dismiss the idea, it's just not the real issue here - we are talking about social groups, not academic ones. We add academic ones where there is sufficient demand...
The way I see it there is already a sufficient ability to socialize on this site as it is for what it is. If some small number of you want to make a personal group there are many social networking sites on which you can do that without moderation. The idea that you need to do that in some hidden or private area of OS is not what OS is for. The site does have an intrinsic purpose, and needs to be regarded as credible in that respect. We rely on having a reputation as some kind of place aimed at primarily furthering education. While furthering education and socializing are not mutually exclusive, the social aspect is not completely ignored here. The question is whether we provide a sufficient one given the circumstances. To that I say "yes" since we have plenty of room to chat (there are many unused section in which you could talk without having to content with multiple conversations, like the history group) and you can always arrange some way to chat on another social network if you find someone you want to develop that relationship with. Though the idea of looking for people you can befriend in such a way, while perhaps incidentally, is still not the *point* of OpenStudy. It is the point of plenty of other sites, and OS would probably rather be unique than cater to that demand yet again.
Okay, Colm... It would be 'semi-privately' BUT, it would be moderated. Doesn't that change anything? And about the Animals group...If you'd have seen it, you wouldn't have said that. It was probably the most educational user made group I was in, not even gonna lie... Turing: I dont know what to say to you... :P I'm at a loss for words now. This goes to both of you: By what i've said, having educational/social groups that are moderated is a good idea for people who have similar interests(sports, books, movies...). If they didn't follow the CoC, or weren't educational, or whatever, it could be deleted. Couldn't you at least give it a try? Just to see how it goes? No problem in trying new things... And it could be only..maybe..three new groups. And you would tell people about it,(I guess in Feedback), to see who was interested in joining. I dont know...Something like that. Just experiment. Because you never know what might happen.
@Agent_Sniffles - So, in terms of 'trying it out' - we've already done that, right? We had user-created groups on OpenStudy, literally unlimited. And that caused serious issues on OpenStudy, hence the change in policy. And also, I find it unfortunate that members of these groups actually scatter when a moderator shows up - this has happened time and time again (I'm sure you recall situations like this). Ultimately, I'm still not sure what you're asking for. If it's the ability to create separate 'social groups' but keep them all moderated - we've tried that and it was unsuccessful. Also, if you only want 'three' of these groups - what's the difference between that and some of the other groups already existing. For instance, I have roughly 15 groups open right now, and only TWO of those chat rooms are actually being used right now. So, why create new groups then?
Yea, your right for example latex practise chat is never being used, geography, and even many other groups and there is always the massag option
I think it would be kinda cool to send a message to multiple people at the same time. You know in the to box, you could put more than one person.
send a private message*
But I don't think a group that is not open to all belongs on openstudy.
Wouldnt that make openstudy more social than educational
Can we have a moderator bot who can look for words that are not supposed to be there and remove people
We've tried that yeah. And it did really get outta hand. People scatter because of the way they see Mods. :P (Of course I do... ^_^) Hm...How to put what I'm asking for.. I guess it would be this: Groups for friend the socialize and learn. Sure we have Music, Maths, Biology, etc.. But, (just like the Animals group) what about groups for hobbies and such? And I'm only saying three as a 'hypothetical' number(Not sure if thats the word). To be honest, other than that...I dont really know what else to say. I mean, I've made my point(in more than one way but meaning the same thing nonetheless...) and I really dont know if I can keep this going(as my wrist is starting to not work on me grr) and I'm kinda out of points.. That usually doesn't happen. Anyway, I've made my point. And if you would just try it out with just one group(a hobby group maybe, kinda like how music is but...not I guess...) I could show you that people really do follow the CoC and aren't using it for 'semi-private' discussions. Maybe thats what we need. A group where people can just talk about what they like. Hell, the group could be called 'Hobbies and Interests' maybe...something along those lines. Because if you try discussing it in chat, not everyone cares to listen. And you're kind of at a loss with sharing interests with those who WANT to listen.
I agree with Sniffles, also I think that it would be cool to be able to *chat* with a singular person instead of message, because like Sniffles said, you forget what you say, & if you could add more people in it as well. I was also in a group that mods deleted, we had a small group of people in it, and we helped each other with homework if needed, we helped each others lives by having a place to vent to. After this group got deleted most of the users in it stopped coming online because they didn't have the people they needed to talk to in a place they knew well. There were mod's monitoring us.
We could have user made groups where we can invite people and maybe they can be deleted instantly too but then again what would happend to the ones who really need help
For example the way we can close a question we might be able to close the groups in a similar way ?
What if we had invisible mods where no one would know they are actually there...
Wahe. I like that idea.
No....Thats just..a negative lol. If I knew that Mods were invisible, I'd feel stalked all the time.
That was just was i was about to say :D
Why would you feel stalked of you are not doing anything wrong 0_o
Because I'm ALWAYS doing something wrong. ^_^ haha I dont know...It would just be..weird.
I just don't know what else could be done, guess facebook is meant for that kind of stuff...
(Can we call this 'The Big Discussion'? lol)
What would you need the posting part for if you are primarily concerned with the chat? What would you put in it? Just links to youtube video? jokes?
Woah...wait...what? You lost me...I dont get what you mean.
imagine the group you want call it interests and hobbies what kinds of things get posted as questions in that group?
I dont know. People's interests and hobbies... I dont know how else to explain. There might be 2 or 3 people who like music, or soccer, or animals.... It could be educational by talking about these things. Music: Talking about singers, sheet music, notes, instruments. Soccer: Players, spots, teams Animals: Kinds of animals, care for animals, what pets are best in a small/large family.... Stuff like that. It would be educational by talking about these things. Enlightening people on those subjects is kind of what I mean(I think...?)
Now, I used to like this discussion, but now it's crumbling. I can't agree with anyone now. My wrist throbs way more now.
Your wrist? Pfft. Girl, please. lol And how is it crumbling?
Agent_Sniffles: I /think/ what Colm was trying to say is that lets say the admins do indeed allow everyone to create these "mini" groups. You say that you would be OK with them assigning 2 or 3 mods to each of these groups. The problem is that even with just 1 mod per group there aren't be enough mods around to cover all the possible "mini" groups that will get created if this feature was enabled. This would leave most of the "mini" groups unmoderated which will lead to the usual consequences. So I think it is a question of resources here.
I think if you create a group thinking that only those who like animals (in the non-academic sense) music (though we already have such a group) and Soccer will fill the need of the ability to create customized social groups where it's just you and your 3 buddies who can chat and nobody else. Precisely the fact that the group is miscellaneous and promotes an extra degree of sociability will cause it to become the new "math chat". What you want would require many groups, which @asnaseer has just addressed the problem with.
Whats goin on guys? i think i missed the conversation :(
But, the 'mini' groups wouldn't be 'user' made...They would be made by the Mods. So there couldn't be multiple 'un-moderated' groups.
You are assuming OpenStudy has plenty of mods to go around.
I have a question, on average how many mods does open study have per day
Are u guys planning to put new features in OS?
All the mods take on their responsibility on a voluntary basis. So most work part time trying to keep OpenStudy a great place to study at.
It wouldn't be for just me and MY friends....Anyone can join, BUT they would have to actually be...I guess interested...in the things discussed in the group.. Say it was only 5 things being discussed in that group....People in the group would have to like those things being discussed... And I'm not assuming that at all...I'm just saying..Well, not sure what I'm saying...
Yes, the mod-tree is out of bloom. It took more than just moderation to even find the other "mystery chat rooms". Checking them all would leave me without time to help anyone with their work.
I thought some mre thing for OS, which i wanted to tell the moderators earlier :)
Don't get me wrong Agent_Sniffles, I agree with your intentions in principal, it's just that I believe there are insufficient resources to realise your dream. :)
you would not be the only one to want your own little group @Agent_Sniffles there were already two of you with just four people after a year there would be countless little groups, all time consuming and distracting from the point of this site.
I will puts some new high and College level courses help group, like that we will gain more users also the talented ppls in OS for helps
Okay, now that I think about it and read what I wrote, I'm contradicting myself about the 'mini' groups.... Asnaseer: I see what you mean... Kind of... What do you mean by insufficient resources? You mean my reasoning...? Turing: Then couldn't it be limited? Like, say someone wanted a group on comedy(using what you said earlier just as an example) you can say yes or no. I mean, what might be academic about a comedy group?(Although, I'd fit right in). :D
By resources I mean people power - not sufficient number of mods round I'm afraid :(
I have an idea that /might/ address some of this...
Oh... I gotcha. Well, then thats what I mean by just one group...The Interests/Hobbies group....Who can go wrong with that? :P
If there is the comedy group there will be more, and then we are back to the user-created group system, which is Colm said we have already tried.
i think we need to increase by many harder level subjects group in OS, from which ppls are struggling, in that way, OS will gain more users
comedy? why not dram? why not romance? etc. there must be a limit, and that's what's precisely being draw here I think
Lets say everyone had the ability to vote for a new group every 3 months or so. Mods would also be able to vote on this list to indicate that they would be willing to dedicate their time to moderate that group. At then of every 3 months, the admins take the top voted group and create it.
I didn't mean to make one...It was just an example of a group that would NOT be made... Unlike, as I keep using, Hobbies/Interests...
Asnaseer, I like that idea. But, how would the groups be decided? Meaning, the groups that would be voted on... If that doesn't make sense, I'm not sure how to word it...
Each user could propose a group with a brief description of its purpose. Other users can then propose new groups or vote on existing ones listed there.
And i also think we need to put something for notes, it would make easier everyone n more helpful for all
Okay...I can see that, Asnaseer.. I really like that idea. And would it be voted on in Feedback? And how long would people have to vote?
Let's not confuse educational merit with academic merit. Any question where someone seeks an answer can be seen as educational, but that does not mean it has a place on OS (in its current form, at least). We specifically try and avoid the 'Yahoo Answers' type environment here, and create new groups only when there is a sufficient demand. IMO, a 'hobbies' group is too broad and not scholastic in most scenarios, but of course I welcome the discussion :).
maybe there'd be a "Group of the Quarter" section somewhere on the site where this can take place?
The groups could be voted on how many people raise their hands to join that group and make it worthy to work. That way it doesn't become something different. The rule on if we make the group or not could be say a raise of 10 hands? If we get say however many that is needed for the group to work, then we can make group. Of course we would also need to have a small discussion on what would be allowed and what not in the group. IDK what i am saying, somehow i am out of mid right now (multitasking) but whatever i am saying seems somehow related. eh.
We should create groups based on demand and traffic, not some arbitrary time frame. /opinion that does not necessarily represent any official OS viewpoint
Yahoo Answers is just terrible... And if its too broad, I'll narrow it down. Well, actually, I wouldn't have to. The things being discussed in the group should narrow it down enough. And yeah, Asna, that'd work.
mattfeury - I agree, the 3 months was just a figure pulled out of the air. :)
@mattfeury that is essentially my take on the matter; as an issue of "teleological precedence"
But, I think we should have at least a week to vote on it...Since some people can't be on everyday.
so maybe instead of every 3 months, a new group would only be created once it hit a sufficient "threshold" of votes from users and mods?
Alrighty, bye everyone :) see you all next time !
That is a better implementation, but we would still be losing the non-users: the people who come here for help in a specific subject, don't find it, and leave. Not saying there is a way to measure that, but it's something we should consider.
I believe the "key" things for creating a new group are: 1. Sufficient demand, 2. Sufficient number of moderators willing to dedicate their time towards moderting it
When creating new groups you could add a feature where you can indicate which other Group(s) that new group is related to. Then have some UI that allows us to see related groups for any given group.
Also, I think verbiage may be tripping us up here. I don't know if you all noticed, but at some point around the SmartScore release, we stopped calling them groups and started calling them 'subjects', which has a much more scholastic tone. Most, if not all, of our subjects are directly related to fields of study in school. This is intentional because one of our visions of this site is for it to be a "study aid".
I would imagine implicit in your part 2. asnaseer is that the group has some degree of academic credibility.
Okay...I'm gonna say: I suggested my idea, and I have to say, I wrote a lot more than I thought I would. I had stronger points than I thought I would...And I agree with you Asnaseer and Matt. Its a great idea. But, I dont think I'm taking part in this discussion because of my wrist now. :/ But, as my ending post: I do agree with you, Asna, and thanks you guys for listening. :)
^ Agreed @asnaseer and @TuringTest. Those 3 points are crucial to the formation of a new subject.
Thanks YOU Agent_Sniffles for bringing this to light. :)
OK - so it's all in the hands of the Gods now - I mean admins :D
lol this was a long but hearty discussion:)
Is it a bad idea to create polls for voting for proposed new groups?
I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, but I don't think that it should be the only metric considered. It would be very helpful in gauging our community's interest.