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nitinz570 Group Title

Having a conceptual problem why is 0/0 undefined?

  • one year ago
  • one year ago

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  1. nitinz570 Group Title
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    @Callisto @TuringTest please help ...

    • one year ago
  2. lgbasallote Group Title
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    0/0 is not undefined...it is indeterminate

    • one year ago
  3. panlac01 Group Title
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    indeterminate

    • one year ago
  4. nitinz570 Group Title
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    what that does mean actually? @lgbasallote

    • one year ago
  5. TuringTest Group Title
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    this is not an easy question to answer it has to do with different ways you can approach this limit

    • one year ago
  6. lgbasallote Group Title
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    the value cannot be determined...thus INdeterminate

    • one year ago
  7. nitinz570 Group Title
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    Oh no problem @TuringTest , I understand the problem @lgbasallote thanks a lot

    • one year ago
  8. lgbasallote Group Title
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    there are a few main reasons why: 1) it conflicts between the rule that a number divided by itself is 1; and the rule that 0 divided by anything is 0. thus it conflicts whether the value is 1 or 0. so you cant determine if it is 1 or 0. 2) another reason is because there are infinite values that will give you 0 when multiplied by 0. so you cant determine which number is the right one.

    • one year ago
  9. nitinz570 Group Title
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    Well @mathslover Recommend this site .. how to use this?

    • one year ago
  10. panlac01 Group Title
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    already sent him info on indeterminate

    • one year ago
  11. TuringTest Group Title
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    for example\[\lim_{x\to0}\frac xx=1\]but\[\lim_{x\to0}\frac{2x}x=2\]but both are mathematically equivalent to \[\frac00\]in the l;imit hence if we admitted\[\frac00\]into the set of numbers and gave it a value it would be inconsistent in mathematics and destroy the whole system effectively.

    • one year ago
  12. TuringTest Group Title
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    \[\lim_{x\to0}\frac{x^2}x=0\]etc. it would be an "inconsistent formal system"

    • one year ago
  13. SUROJ Group Title
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    to easily understand this concept let's take an example of (10/2) which is same as 5, and (5/5) is same as 1, but we can't say (0/0) as 1 simply because 0 on numerator is equal to zero on denominator, and (0/0) is undefined..... we don't know what it is.

    • one year ago
  14. lgbasallote Group Title
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    @SUROJ (0/0) is not undefined

    • one year ago
  15. lgbasallote Group Title
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    undefined is x/0

    • one year ago
  16. SUROJ Group Title
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    @lgbasallote why x/0 is undefined? curious

    • one year ago
  17. lgbasallote Group Title
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    okay let's say for example x = 2 2/0 can you give me a number that when you multiply to 0 the answer is 2?

    • one year ago
  18. TuringTest Group Title
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    I think that technically both are undefined 1/0 is undefined but *not* an indefinite form 0/0 is an indefinite form. Is it also undefined? I think so...

    • one year ago
  19. SUROJ Group Title
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    nope

    • one year ago
  20. lgbasallote Group Title
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    i think the best term for 0/0 is indeterminate..

    • one year ago
  21. TuringTest Group Title
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    any division by zero is undefined, so x/0 is undefined 1/0 undefined and not indefinite 0/0 undefined and indefinite that's my understanding

    • one year ago
  22. dumbcow Group Title
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    my way of thinking is undefined refers to an infinite number that is not defined but we relatively know its really big or really small(big negative) indeterminate means we have no idea what the value is

    • one year ago
  23. TuringTest Group Title
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    I meant "indeterminate" when I said "indefinite" :/ so do you say that 1/0 is indeterminate or not?

    • one year ago
  24. TuringTest Group Title
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    @dumbcow

    • one year ago
  25. dumbcow Group Title
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    no i would say its not indeterminate because we know the limit of 1/x as x->0 is infinity

    • one year ago
  26. panlac01 Group Title
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    1/0 is not indeterminate

    • one year ago
  27. TuringTest Group Title
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    ok I agree with that just making sure we're all on the same page

    • one year ago
  28. waterineyes Group Title
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    0*1 = 0 0*2 = 0 0*dog = 0 0*nitinz570 = 0 can you tell particularly for what values you are getting 0..??

    • one year ago
  29. dumbcow Group Title
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    the indeterminate forms are: 0/0 inf/inf 0*inf

    • one year ago
  30. panlac01 Group Title
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    1/0 is complex infinity

    • one year ago
  31. TuringTest Group Title
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    0^0 debated at times

    • one year ago
  32. waterineyes Group Title
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    \(0^0\) is also undetermined..

    • one year ago
  33. panlac01 Group Title
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    yep

    • one year ago
  34. panlac01 Group Title
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    indeterminate*

    • one year ago
  35. panlac01 Group Title
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    see how the mayan's gave mathematicians more to debate about?

    • one year ago
  36. SUROJ Group Title
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    there are 7 indeterminate forms in nature

    • one year ago
  37. panlac01 Group Title
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    just check wolfram mathworld.

    • one year ago
  38. TuringTest Group Title
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    mathematicians debate whether or not \(0^0=1\) or not Euler, for instance, thought it did

    • one year ago
  39. SUROJ Group Title
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    0/0, infinity/infinity, 0^infinity, 1^infinity, 0^0, infinity^0, infinity-infinity

    • one year ago
  40. panlac01 Group Title
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    if 0^0 =1 then 0/0 = 1 also

    • one year ago
  41. TuringTest Group Title
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    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/sci-math-faq/specialnumbers/0to0/?PHPSESSID=40fdcce21f158a5d17267b711e395947#b not true panlac

    • one year ago
  42. panlac01 Group Title
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    http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Indeterminate.html

    • one year ago
  43. TuringTest Group Title
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    mathematicians *define* \(0^0=1\) because of a number of arguments btw note that your reference is Thomas and Finney 1996, pp. 220 and 423; Gellert et al. 1989, p. 400 and there are other equally reputable books and references that disagree if you read the article I linked you too, or some of those linked to it.

    • one year ago
  44. TuringTest Group Title
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    *some* mathematicians - I meant above...

    • one year ago
  45. TuringTest Group Title
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    it is just very debated ti this day is all I generally treat it as undefined as well

    • one year ago
  46. TuringTest Group Title
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    to*

    • one year ago
  47. panlac01 Group Title
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    yeh. my math professor is one of those who thinks the same way. but she teaches it as indeterminate

    • one year ago
  48. TuringTest Group Title
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    It makes more sense to me as well, I'm just pointing out the discrepancy out there...

    • one year ago
  49. panlac01 Group Title
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    trust me, it does to me also

    • one year ago
  50. Herp_Derp Group Title
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    For x not equal to 0, x/0 is defined (as a number, not necessarily as a limit) in a 1-point compactification of the reals (the projectively extended real numbers) or the complex numbers (the extended complex plane), and is equal to infinity. However, 0/0 (as a number) is still undefined in these settings.

    • one year ago
  51. dumbcow Group Title
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    btw the limit of x^x as x->0 is 1 , which i believe is a strong argument for equating 0^0 to 1

    • one year ago
  52. mathslover Group Title
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    Nice discussion and also : \[\huge{\mathbb{Welcome}\textbf{To}\mathbb{Open}\textbf{Study}}\]

    • one year ago
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