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nitinz570

  • 3 years ago

Having a conceptual problem why is 0/0 undefined?

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  1. nitinz570
    • 3 years ago
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    @Callisto @TuringTest please help ...

  2. lgbasallote
    • 3 years ago
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    0/0 is not undefined...it is indeterminate

  3. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    indeterminate

  4. nitinz570
    • 3 years ago
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    what that does mean actually? @lgbasallote

  5. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    this is not an easy question to answer it has to do with different ways you can approach this limit

  6. lgbasallote
    • 3 years ago
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    the value cannot be determined...thus INdeterminate

  7. nitinz570
    • 3 years ago
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    Oh no problem @TuringTest , I understand the problem @lgbasallote thanks a lot

  8. lgbasallote
    • 3 years ago
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    there are a few main reasons why: 1) it conflicts between the rule that a number divided by itself is 1; and the rule that 0 divided by anything is 0. thus it conflicts whether the value is 1 or 0. so you cant determine if it is 1 or 0. 2) another reason is because there are infinite values that will give you 0 when multiplied by 0. so you cant determine which number is the right one.

  9. nitinz570
    • 3 years ago
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    Well @mathslover Recommend this site .. how to use this?

  10. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    already sent him info on indeterminate

  11. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    for example\[\lim_{x\to0}\frac xx=1\]but\[\lim_{x\to0}\frac{2x}x=2\]but both are mathematically equivalent to \[\frac00\]in the l;imit hence if we admitted\[\frac00\]into the set of numbers and gave it a value it would be inconsistent in mathematics and destroy the whole system effectively.

  12. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    \[\lim_{x\to0}\frac{x^2}x=0\]etc. it would be an "inconsistent formal system"

  13. SUROJ
    • 3 years ago
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    to easily understand this concept let's take an example of (10/2) which is same as 5, and (5/5) is same as 1, but we can't say (0/0) as 1 simply because 0 on numerator is equal to zero on denominator, and (0/0) is undefined..... we don't know what it is.

  14. lgbasallote
    • 3 years ago
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    @SUROJ (0/0) is not undefined

  15. lgbasallote
    • 3 years ago
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    undefined is x/0

  16. SUROJ
    • 3 years ago
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    @lgbasallote why x/0 is undefined? curious

  17. lgbasallote
    • 3 years ago
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    okay let's say for example x = 2 2/0 can you give me a number that when you multiply to 0 the answer is 2?

  18. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    I think that technically both are undefined 1/0 is undefined but *not* an indefinite form 0/0 is an indefinite form. Is it also undefined? I think so...

  19. SUROJ
    • 3 years ago
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    nope

  20. lgbasallote
    • 3 years ago
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    i think the best term for 0/0 is indeterminate..

  21. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    any division by zero is undefined, so x/0 is undefined 1/0 undefined and not indefinite 0/0 undefined and indefinite that's my understanding

  22. dumbcow
    • 3 years ago
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    my way of thinking is undefined refers to an infinite number that is not defined but we relatively know its really big or really small(big negative) indeterminate means we have no idea what the value is

  23. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    I meant "indeterminate" when I said "indefinite" :/ so do you say that 1/0 is indeterminate or not?

  24. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    @dumbcow

  25. dumbcow
    • 3 years ago
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    no i would say its not indeterminate because we know the limit of 1/x as x->0 is infinity

  26. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    1/0 is not indeterminate

  27. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    ok I agree with that just making sure we're all on the same page

  28. waterineyes
    • 3 years ago
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    0*1 = 0 0*2 = 0 0*dog = 0 0*nitinz570 = 0 can you tell particularly for what values you are getting 0..??

  29. dumbcow
    • 3 years ago
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    the indeterminate forms are: 0/0 inf/inf 0*inf

  30. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    1/0 is complex infinity

  31. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    0^0 debated at times

  32. waterineyes
    • 3 years ago
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    \(0^0\) is also undetermined..

  33. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    yep

  34. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    indeterminate*

  35. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    see how the mayan's gave mathematicians more to debate about?

  36. SUROJ
    • 3 years ago
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    there are 7 indeterminate forms in nature

  37. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    just check wolfram mathworld.

  38. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    mathematicians debate whether or not \(0^0=1\) or not Euler, for instance, thought it did

  39. SUROJ
    • 3 years ago
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    0/0, infinity/infinity, 0^infinity, 1^infinity, 0^0, infinity^0, infinity-infinity

  40. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    if 0^0 =1 then 0/0 = 1 also

  41. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/sci-math-faq/specialnumbers/0to0/?PHPSESSID=40fdcce21f158a5d17267b711e395947#b not true panlac

  42. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Indeterminate.html

  43. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    mathematicians *define* \(0^0=1\) because of a number of arguments btw note that your reference is Thomas and Finney 1996, pp. 220 and 423; Gellert et al. 1989, p. 400 and there are other equally reputable books and references that disagree if you read the article I linked you too, or some of those linked to it.

  44. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    *some* mathematicians - I meant above...

  45. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    it is just very debated ti this day is all I generally treat it as undefined as well

  46. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    to*

  47. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    yeh. my math professor is one of those who thinks the same way. but she teaches it as indeterminate

  48. TuringTest
    • 3 years ago
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    It makes more sense to me as well, I'm just pointing out the discrepancy out there...

  49. panlac01
    • 3 years ago
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    trust me, it does to me also

  50. Herp_Derp
    • 3 years ago
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    For x not equal to 0, x/0 is defined (as a number, not necessarily as a limit) in a 1-point compactification of the reals (the projectively extended real numbers) or the complex numbers (the extended complex plane), and is equal to infinity. However, 0/0 (as a number) is still undefined in these settings.

  51. dumbcow
    • 3 years ago
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    btw the limit of x^x as x->0 is 1 , which i believe is a strong argument for equating 0^0 to 1

  52. mathslover
    • 3 years ago
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    Nice discussion and also : \[\huge{\mathbb{Welcome}\textbf{To}\mathbb{Open}\textbf{Study}}\]

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