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Directrix

  • 2 years ago

What is meant by the OS Code of Conduct admonishment to "guide" an asker to a solution? This is being interpreted in at least two ways. One interpretation is that the Asker must be engaged to some extent in a dialogue about the creation of a solution to the problem the Asker posts. A second interpretation is that the Answerer's reply to the Asker's posted question is sufficient to meet the "guide" criterion if the Answerer writes a solution to the asked problem and posts it without input from the Asker. So, how is "guide" to be interpreted? I will post examples for your consideration.

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  1. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    Guide means posted solution with no engagement of Asker in the solution: I need help solving this equation. 6r^2+11r=10. My answers are r+and- i5/2 squared and r+and- 2/3 squared...I am wrong apparently. ------------------------------------------ On this problem you need to rearrange 6r^2+11r=10 to be 6r^2+11r-10=0 Then use the quadratic formula to solve. \[-b \pm \sqrt{b ^{2}-4ac}\div2a\] Which then gives: \[-11\pm \sqrt{11^{2}-4(6)(-10)}\div2(6)\] So r=2/3, -5/2 Plug those values back in to the original equation for r and you'll see the solution works out. ------------------------------------------ OpenStudy values the Learning process - not the ‘Give you an answer’ process •Don’t post only answers - guide the asker to a solution. http://openstudy.com/code-of-conduct -------------------------------------------- I did guide the asker to a solution!

  2. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    If you want to see the above in context, see the following link: http://openstudy.com/study#/updates/506617b1e4b08d1852122a6e

  3. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    What follows is a second interpretation of "guide" with the engagement of the student. A picture frame is shaped as a heptagon. The measure of one angle is 144 The remaining interior angles are congruent. What is the measure of each remaining interior angles in the picture frame? -------------------------------------------- How many sides does a heptagon have? -------------------------------------------- Seven if i'm corrct -------------------------------------------- You are correct. Now, we need to know the sum of the interior angles of the heptagon. Do you know the formula? It's okay if you don't; it's okay if you do. ------------------------------------------- well the only formula i'm aware of is (n-2)x 180 ---------------------------------------------- That's it. So, where n is the number of sides, the sum of all the interior angles is (7-2)*180 which is --> your turn to crank out the sum. ---------------------------------------------------- 900 ------------------------------------- here is where im lost hehe xD ------------------------------------- Great. So, we'll subtract that 144 angle from 900 and get 900- 144 = 756 degrees for the other six interior angles to share equally. That is because they are congruent and congruent angles have the same measure. -------------------------------------- Any idea of what we should do to the 756 to get the measure of each of the remaining congruent angles. Your turn now. ---------------------------------------- would i have to divide by the number of sides? ----------------------------------------- No. The number of sides gives the number of interior angles. But one of those seven interior angles had a measure of 144. We subtracted it from the total of all seven interior angles. Now, there are six angles left with a sum of 756. Remember that all six of those remaining angles have the same measure. Does that make sense? ----------------------------------------------- So, we'll divide 756 by what number? Your Turn --------------------------------------------- i got nothing , im sorry --------------------------------------------- No worries. Divide 756 by 6 and post what you get. -------------------------------------- 126 is the outcome, but why is it specifically divided by 6? ------------------------------------- oh because there are 6 remaining right? -------------------------------------- 144 + 126*6 = 900 which is the sum of the interior angles of the septagon. Yes, there are six congruent angles remaining after the 144 angle is subtracted. -------------------------------------- thank you so much ^_^ i appreciate your help a lot !!! ------------------------------------- Glad to help. I like Geometry.

  4. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    I can see how guide can be interpreted in two ways by reading the previous two posts. The questions to TPTG (the powers that be) is how are the OS Answerers to interpret "guide" as in guiding students to a solution? There seems to be no confusion regarding the "Don’t post only answers" because OpenStudy values the Learning process - not the ‘Give you an answer’ process •Don’t post only answers - guide the asker to a solution.

  5. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    Question for the Purple People and all OS administrators and members who would like to response.

  6. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    i dont have a problem with jonnymiller's response

  7. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    Second Clarification Requested: If an Asker requests or implies a request for confirmation of an answer, is the Answerer expected by TPTB to provide more than a confirmaton or denial? A scenario illustrating this follows: -------------------- Use synthetic division to find P(–2) for P(x) = x4 + 9x3 - 9x + 2 . A. –2 B. 0 C. –36 D. 68 answer is C -36 --------------------------------- yup, thats correct. --------------------------------- thank you ----------------------------------- welcome ^_^

  8. hartnn
    • 2 years ago
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    ^^ that was my answer

  9. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    @UnkleRhaukus I tend to agree with you. However, the moderators (I assume) are the OS members who issue warnings to Answerers whose replies do not measure up to whatever is meant by guiding the student to a solution. After x number of warnings, the Answerer is bounced from the site. Also, after each warning, an e-mail copy of that warning is sent to the Answerer. However, the offending reply to the question for which the Answerer is being chastised is not cited. If the author(s) of the OS Code of Conduct would clarify what "guide" means, this would clear the confusion.

  10. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    have only been issued one warning , and i still dont know which response of my mine warranted it,

  11. Rohangrr
    • 2 years ago
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    Is that a tutorial

  12. badreferences
    • 2 years ago
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    @Directrix When dealing with human issues; that is, the nature of how people learn, it would be a mistake to try to so rigorously define the foundations of what a "guide" is. The best response I can give is that when asked to "guide" an asker to the solution, do whatever you deem intuitively to be most instrumental to helping him/her learn. So, with me, it's unnecessary to explain every step. Give a hint, and I'm gold. Others might find it difficult to understand why fractions can cancel. They might need an actual, literal guide.

  13. badreferences
    • 2 years ago
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    Or, in other words, instead of giving a concrete guideline of what structure a guide might follow, instead consider a guide to be the most instrumental response you can give to helping an asker come to an understanding. So if it's immediately apparent that I have already answered the question myself, but have made a mistake in the process, a step by step solution would be better than hand-holding explanations. But if I don't know where to start... well, the issue is now about whether I understand the fundamental issues of the field.

  14. satellite73
    • 2 years ago
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    wow what a lot of rules. my idea would be to relax and not worry math is hard enough as it is

  15. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    @badreferences Here's the sticking point. What is meant by guiding an Asker to a solution is not left for your or my discretion. Someone else (a moderator?) makes the decision to issue a warning and a compilation of such warnings has consequences. Therefore, Answerers should know what the author(s) of the OS Code of Conduct mean by "guiding to a solution." A definition would be sufficient. I

  16. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    haha agreed with @satellite73 math is hard so u gotta relax lol :) i mean everybody has differnt ways of understanding so yeah as long as u learn it right?

  17. badreferences
    • 2 years ago
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    Language is vague enough that reasonable intuition must be exercised at every step. We have generally the same tolerances to stupidity that the mods do. So I think with a margin of error we can prevent most sorts of unreasonable punishments.

  18. badreferences
    • 2 years ago
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    That is, I can post a benign joke, and even though it isn't a guide, I won't be warned for it.

  19. badreferences
    • 2 years ago
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    "A boy owned a dog that was uncommonly shaggy. Many people remarked upon its considerable shagginess. When the boy learned that there are contests for shaggy dogs, he entered his dog. The dog won first prize for shagginess in both the local and the regional competitions. The boy entered the dog in ever-larger contests, until finally he entered it in the world championship for shaggy dogs. When the judges had inspected all of the competing dogs, they remarked about the boy's dog: 'He's not so shaggy.'"

  20. estudier
    • 2 years ago
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    Sherpa

  21. badreferences
    • 2 years ago
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherpa_language Yes.|dw:1348907038762:dw|

  22. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    I viewed this OS video on the OS Facebook site. The helper owl gave what could be thought of as the "entire solution" to the asker owl without calling upon the asker owl for input. Interesting. https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=546254509750&set=vb.85705490637&type=2&theater

  23. sara12345
    • 2 years ago
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    depends on the asker, if u sense the asker knows what he/she asking, give them respect and answer to the point. no point being formal or trying to give hints/clues/creative/twisted/beat-around-the-bush responses i see lot of ppl struggling to stick to code-of-conduct. you dont need to follow code-of-conduct literally

  24. Directrix
    • 2 years ago
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    @sara12345 Point taken. Question: In not literally following the code, if you were cited with repeated warnings and locked out of the site for a specific time, would you continue to answer questions *your way* despite the code upon your return?

  25. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    1) The mods should really think twice before warning/banning - read whether the asker was so SO, SO helpless, and SO hapless that the Answerer just had to finish by giving it all. In this case THERE IS NO OTHER WAY !!! 2) If they really want coherence then they MUST STATE EXPLICITLY TO ALL: "No complete solutions are provided here" " Please medal answerers for central piece of solutions."

  26. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    Aand a Dual- complement of the above: Is any editorial attention being paid to simply answer-gatherers ? People who ask, but who actively oppose explanations, only FULL solutions. I'm observing such behaviour frequently

  27. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    to guide is to have an interaction with the person asking the question. If there is no interaction going on, there is no guidance being given. to start the process, you should ask question so that you can judge the innate abilities of the asker; and then encourage them to use those abilities to find a solution.

  28. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    Is any editorial attention being paid to simply answer-gatherers ? People who ask, but who actively oppose explanations, only FULL solutions. I'm observing such behaviour frequently

  29. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    if the asker is "sooo" helpless as to be able to think for themselves; then we should not encourage them to continue to have other "do the thinking for them".

  30. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    But have u no mercy ? Even if this is sincere helpless person ?

  31. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    those who demand only solutions and do not want to participate in the process are given warnings and if the behaviour is persistent, they are suspended for having an aire of cheating

  32. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    this is a STUDY group after all, not a free answering service

  33. hartnn
    • 2 years ago
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    ^^ i agree

  34. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    I am ready to report such gatherers - where to report to?

  35. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    there is a report abuse option with a comment section for being specific about the complaint that you have. This is sent to all moderators and administrators to review the situation and make appropriate judgement calls on

  36. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    This is not abuse - it is exploitation, but not abuse

  37. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    when children are exploited, are they being abused?

  38. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    i thought your grievence was with the term "abuse", do you wish to flop to some other debate?

  39. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    I estimate that about 25% of ALL questions are asked with preplanned intent to receive ONLY full, and chewed solution. Just observe - you will see it.

  40. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    what the thinker thinks, the prover proves

  41. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    ive been doing this for nigh on a year and a half; im well aware of them :)

  42. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    Any bans have been actually issued ?

  43. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    of course ....

  44. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    i would like to know the result of a report i issued about a month ago, i never heard back

  45. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    we rely upon the users to feild abusive behaviour, but its not really their privy to know what happens afterwards.

  46. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    there was this one person i was helping once and then the user stopped responding (they posted a science question in math by accident; new OS user) and then later messaged me saying they got suspended for an hour.... so suspension/bans do happen right? and do bans mean u will NEVER be able to use OS again? :O

  47. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    the mods and administrators make a judgement call

  48. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    well i was feeling quite insulted by a certain response and i dont know if justice prevailed

  49. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    Are you aware of wholesale intermediaries ? Ask and transfer, that is

  50. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    moderators can suspend for a time limit; its up to the administrators that govern the site to cancel accounts and what nots

  51. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    @UnkleRhaukus what kind of response?? (hope it wasn't from me right??!!)

  52. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    i cant say im familiar with the wholesale concpet

  53. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    some had a good question and i did a lot of work (without giving away the answer) , and then they drew a rude picture and it had a rude comment

  54. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    Y gathers questions from clients - a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h and i. Y asks here. Y gives them the answers

  55. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    Unkle, regretable, that happens; its best if you can just brush it off in the end :)

  56. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    the wholesale concept seems like a logistical issue that would have to be wieghed by those who own the site

  57. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    agreed... just wondering, do u know when OS was first launched??

  58. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    I don't mind - the thing bothering me is that wholesalers are complete idiots as to the q.-s they post. So they just ask and shut.

  59. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    i recently found out about OS earlier this year right b4 summer.... :) and it's awesome! :D

  60. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    I think it was around for a year or so before I joined; created in the basement of Georgia MIt maybe? im terrible with history :)

  61. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    Ive often considered the possibility of having dedicated answers; but thats just a pipe dream

  62. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    What do you mean @amistre64 could you just explain that dream ?

  63. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    yes, do

  64. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    Since there is no method in place to weed out good answers from the bad; that perhaps there could be a means of testing the users and see what they abilities are. The report abuses could be considered as demerits and they would not be able to reply to certain questions; while others who have shown responsible would be allowed to participate. But I do not think that is a viable plan for the nature of this site

  65. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    hahah it's all good :) when'd u join @amistre64 ?

  66. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    it was about a week after the tsunami hit in japan

  67. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    ohhhh cool!

  68. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    back then "fan count" was the determining factor of a score

  69. Mikael
    • 2 years ago
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    Thanks , see you around harder questions. bye

  70. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    ohhhh really? haha :) i have no idea about smartscores lol :/

  71. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    when i broke the fan count system; they implemented a medaling system; when satellite and i broke that; they winded their way to this smart score system ;)

  72. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    ha ha

  73. UnkleRhaukus
    • 2 years ago
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    whats next ? a logarithmic cardinal system?

  74. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    oh wow haha :) satellite has a smartscore of 100!! is satellite the only one with 100?? that is just amazing :O

  75. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    dunno, maybe something to do with migratory spiritual essenses that are encaptured on brine sticks .... lol

  76. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    satellite is the only 100er yes

  77. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    and how do u even get to 99!?!??! that's just amazing! :O

  78. amistre64
    • 2 years ago
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    my 99 status was just grandfathered in a believe

  79. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    and wow that's so cool! I wish i had 100! lol :/ or 99! hahah eh oh well :P

  80. iheartfood
    • 2 years ago
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    oh hahaa cool :)

  81. sasogeek
    • 2 years ago
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    Directrix, here's my input on this, just got a chance to respond to your message. my internet hasn't allowed me to load OS for hours lol At the end of the day, what do we want to accomplish? if I know OS well, what we stand for is understanding, not answers, no matter the form in which it comes. Understanding is a destination and an end, but what is the means to that end? I believe that's what OS calls "guiding" an asker to an answer. The asker is the one needing the understanding, and if there's no input from them, how do you tell whether they understand or not? No matter how well an explanation of a solution to a question is, if you don't engage the asker to find out whether they get it, for all you know, your well worked out step by step solution is gibberish to them. I can say the same about the answer @jonnymiller gave in your example. Often times i see people ask a question and just when they close that question, they ask a similar question... it doesn't make any sense. to guide someone means bringing them along, you don't go all the way using the very correct routes and leave the person where you began, that's cos 90. some people want answers, some people need help. find out which one of these two types of people you're engaging first, then you know what course of action to take. remember, you're dealing with people and they're future indirectly, you either want to be a positive impact, or a negative impact.

  82. sasogeek
    • 2 years ago
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    sorry if i've repeated some things already said in the thread, i haven't read the whole thing cos it seems rather long but just wanted to respond to your message @Directrix :)

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