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rvgupta Group Title

Does our universe have an edge? if yes. Explain

  • 2 years ago
  • 2 years ago

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  1. thivitaa Group Title
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    i dont think our universe really have an edge...

    • 2 years ago
  2. harsh314 Group Title
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    if we look on it practically as we know the universe is expanding and the edge of the universe depends on that expansion we can say that the edge of the universe is continuously changing and also the edge depends upon the shape of space matrix all around but still as we know dark energy is responsible for expansion so it depends on the behaviour of dark energy as if it obeys the law of conservation of energy then the rate of expansion of the universe would be exactly same everywhere and hence every part would expand in a symmetrical way now if we consider the whole universe as a large system with conserved energy then its orignal shape must be spherical and hence we can say the universe is expanding in spherical symmetry so it will have no edge

    • 2 years ago
  3. amistre64 Group Title
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    i kinda have to wonder what defines an "edge" for the universe

    • 2 years ago
  4. Sidhantb5 Group Title
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    if multiverse' exist then no universe may have an edge

    • 2 years ago
  5. JamesWolf Group Title
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    |dw:1349878917681:dw|

    • 2 years ago
  6. Fathomspace Group Title
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    If considering the universe a sphere in totality,then i guess the universe wouldnt have an edge.Just like earth....And any mass in space tries to occupy minimum volume,so i guess the universe is pretty much a sphere.

    • 2 years ago
  7. JamesWolf Group Title
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    Its not a perfect analogy though, more of a metaphor I think. If the universe was a true sphere then traveling in one direction I would eventually get back to where I started, which I don't believe is the case.

    • 2 years ago
  8. paarth Group Title
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    the answer to this question would depend on how you define "universe". if by "universe" u mean the observable universe , then the answer would be a yes . the observable universe is quite understandably expanding (or its edge is moving away) at the speed of light. if you are talking about the complete "universe" (which is not very well defined) , recent experiments have shown that its topography is more or less flat(and which implies it is endlessly extending). moreover, you may involve the concept of multiverses which will make the topic even less specific and less answerable. so, all in all it depends on what you mean by the term "universe"

    • 2 years ago
  9. Sidhantb5 Group Title
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    paarth what do we mean by complete universe? is it a multiverse?

    • 2 years ago
  10. paarth Group Title
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    that's what i said. it is not defined and, probably, will never be. so for all practical purposes ( which won't be very much practical in the present or the near future)we can use the observable universe which, yes, does have an edge expanding at the speed of light.

    • 2 years ago
  11. CliffSedge Group Title
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    No.

    • 2 years ago
  12. 009infinity Group Title
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    universe have an edge as its just asystem having limited energy.

    • 2 years ago
  13. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @009infinity how are you defining 'edge?'

    • 2 years ago
  14. 009infinity Group Title
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    it is expanding till now but its edge is expanding with a constant rate.

    • 2 years ago
  15. ujjwal Group Title
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    If universe began from a point and immediately after big-bang began to expand and is expanding, it must have an edge.. Saying that something which 'doesn't have edge' is expanding doesn't make sense at all.. So. if you say the universe is expanding you must say that it has an edge which is expanding along with its expansion! But that's too classical and simple explanation.. maybe it isn't that simple.. but that's what i think!

    • 2 years ago
  16. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @009 you mean the edge of the observable universe, the light horizon, not the actual universe itself.

    • 2 years ago
  17. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @ujjwal that misconception comes from thinking that the universe is expanding into empty space, but all space (empty or not) is within the universe.

    • 2 years ago
  18. 009infinity Group Title
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    its ur misconception @CliffSedge as energy creates space and time and definetly space is within the universe.

    • 2 years ago
  19. ujjwal Group Title
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    So, how is the universe expanding? Expanding refers to gradual increase in size.. If it doesn't have a size, how can its size increase?

    • 2 years ago
  20. rvgupta Group Title
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    let me give you a hint our universe have boundaries proved by holographic principle, so this boundary can store information on its walls

    • 2 years ago
  21. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @009 how is that my misconception? You didn't say anything that is in disagreement with what I said.

    • 2 years ago
  22. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @rv, that is still not a physical boundary. These 'walls' you speak of don't exist anywhere.

    • 2 years ago
  23. 009infinity Group Title
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    oh sory!

    • 2 years ago
  24. JamesWolf Group Title
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    the way I was told to imagine it is a balloon. imagine the 2d surface of the baloon is our 3d space. as the balloon is inflated that 2d surface expands, but still has no edge

    • 2 years ago
  25. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @ujjwal "So, how is the universe expanding? Expanding refers to gradual increase in size.. If it doesn't have a size, how can its size increase?" The expansion is the increase in distance between galaxies. The Big Bang did not occur at a point and then a small universe got bigger. The Big Bang occurred everywhere at the same time. The universe is either infinite or finite (this is unknown, my guess is finite). What ever its finitude at the time of the Big Bang, it is the same now. Expansion occurs everywhere equally.

    • 2 years ago
  26. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @JamesWolf yes, that can help visualize details of the expansion, but since people can't visualize expanding 4-dimensional spacetime, it can be a misleading analogy.

    • 2 years ago
  27. JamesWolf Group Title
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    Its a really hard one to visualise. Like trying to imagine viewing all of 4d space at once. rather than just 3d spaces with slices of the 4th dimension (time).

    • 2 years ago
  28. rvgupta Group Title
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    this is a fact that our universe have boundaries. on which it can store the information the most basic physics principle that information can never be lost e.g., if a star dies it must leave some information in the universe as a residue, where does this information goes is the boundaries of the universe so whats ur ans now?

    • 2 years ago
  29. 009infinity Group Title
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    |dw:1349890021663:dw|

    • 2 years ago
  30. JamesWolf Group Title
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    My answer is that I dont understand the holographic principle well enough to comment.

    • 2 years ago
  31. JamesWolf Group Title
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    bloody good drawing considering the shocking software on here

    • 2 years ago
  32. 009infinity Group Title
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    its some what like that time is 4th dimension

    • 2 years ago
  33. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @rvgupta I do understand the holographic principle, but you are still imagining that there is a physical wall somewhere that encodes information on a 2D surface. I recommend studying the topic further. Leonard Suskind has some good explanations. It is related to black hole physics as well, so spend some time with that.

    • 2 years ago
  34. CliffSedge Group Title
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    "if a star dies it must leave some information in the universe as a residue, where does this information goes is the boundaries of the universe" When a start dies, its 'information' is in the form of the matter that it was made of, that matter still resides in the space the star was in.

    • 2 years ago
  35. rvgupta Group Title
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    if u people r talking about expansion then let me tell u that it depends on the latest theory INFLATION which predicts that universe expansion rate is continuously increasing even faster than the speed of light so its impossible to say that whether our universe is finite or infinite

    • 2 years ago
  36. JamesWolf Group Title
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    That is NOT the theory of inflation

    • 2 years ago
  37. rvgupta Group Title
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    so what do u think

    • 2 years ago
  38. CliffSedge Group Title
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    Some casual reading: http://io9.com/5818008/the-universe-probably-isnt-a-giant-hologram-after-all

    • 2 years ago
  39. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @rvgupta (leaving aside your rude tone for now) "if u people r talking about expansion then let me tell u that it depends on the latest theory INFLATION which predicts that universe expansion rate is continuously increasing even faster than the speed of light so its impossible to say that whether our universe is finite or infinite" This is false. Inflation theory isn't a prediction, it is a model of cosmic dynamics shortly after BB. The increase in expansion rate now is unrelated. No matter travels faster than light, but the space between matter can expand at any rate. You are correct that it is not yet known whether the universe is finite or infinite, but regardless of which, there is still no boundary.

    • 2 years ago
  40. CliffSedge Group Title
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    Some more casual reading: http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/seuforum/faq.htm#s1

    • 2 years ago
  41. rvgupta Group Title
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    so what about the information lost

    • 2 years ago
  42. ujjwal Group Title
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    What does "information" refer to? @rvgupta

    • 2 years ago
  43. JamesWolf Group Title
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    what information loss? when a star explodes the information is taken from all the parts that fly off isnt it? if time is reversed you get the star back. no information is lost?

    • 2 years ago
  44. rvgupta Group Title
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    it is the most basic principle of physics that information can never be lost so it must be somewhere based on this susskind said that our universe must have boundaries to store this information, even stephen hawkink said that it should be right

    • 2 years ago
  45. JamesWolf Group Title
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    I dont think you understand it, (im not saying i do). explain to me where the information is lost? Hawking showed that information was not lost in a black hole, since a black hole evaporates?

    • 2 years ago
  46. rvgupta Group Title
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    what do u think about parallel universe this theory is useless without boundaries

    • 2 years ago
  47. CliffSedge Group Title
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    Yeah, I'm not seeing the information loss either. Are you talking about black holes?

    • 2 years ago
  48. 009infinity Group Title
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    i think information is not lost till we exist to precieve it

    • 2 years ago
  49. CliffSedge Group Title
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    I don't think you understand 'parallel universes' or multiverse theory either, rvgupta..

    • 2 years ago
  50. 009infinity Group Title
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    @CliffSedge can u explain

    • 2 years ago
  51. JamesWolf Group Title
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    the old does a bear pellet in the woods theory infinity? :P

    • 2 years ago
  52. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @009infinity 'information' (in physics) is not the same as knowledge. Information is due to signals (relative motion or other interactions of matter and energy).

    • 2 years ago
  53. ujjwal Group Title
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    I just understood that i understand nothing! Carry on Young Scientists!!

    • 2 years ago
  54. CliffSedge Group Title
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    The multiverse is not like universes physically stacked on top of each other as if they were sheets of paper. The multiverse is a sum-over-histories of all the possible interactions that could occur in given instances.

    • 2 years ago
  55. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @ujjwal congratulations, you are at least as wise as Socrates! :-)

    • 2 years ago
  56. CliffSedge Group Title
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    As much as I would love to continue this discussion all day, I have to leave for work in like 5 minutes, so we can pick this up some other time if you are still interested.

    • 2 years ago
  57. 009infinity Group Title
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    information will exist before time is over am i right now

    • 2 years ago
  58. CliffSedge Group Title
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    I don't know what that means, @009infinity "before time is over" ??

    • 2 years ago
  59. rvgupta Group Title
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    cliff u r now talking about parallel universe not multiverse

    • 2 years ago
  60. CliffSedge Group Title
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    The multiverse *is* parallel universes. It's the same thing, @rvgupta

    • 2 years ago
  61. 009infinity Group Title
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    @CliffSedge there r two sence of it that inoformation will exist in universe till time exist (before big crunch)& second its too long discussion to over it

    • 2 years ago
  62. JamesWolf Group Title
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    "@ujjwal congratulations, you are at least as wise as Socrates! :-)" The oracle would like you :)

    • 2 years ago
  63. rvgupta Group Title
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    parallel universes are supported by string theory so dont say that they r same

    • 2 years ago
  64. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @009infinity "there r two sence of it that inoformation will exist in universe till time exist (before big crunch)& second its too long discussion to over it" There is no 'Big Crunch.' The universe will likely go on expanding forever and time will not end.

    • 2 years ago
  65. CliffSedge Group Title
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    Yes, @rvgupta I understand the inflationary model. It does not support anything you are saying about boundaries. Regardless of what String Theory (a theory that makes no predictions, explains nothing, and has not been tested) says about parallel universes, that has nothing to do with parallel universes and the multiverse meaning the same thing. You are profoundly confused; please do some more studying on the matter.

    • 2 years ago
  66. 009infinity Group Title
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    is there any evidience for that @CliffSedge

    • 2 years ago
  67. Fellowroot Group Title
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    The universe can be thought of as a sphere expanding in all directions with the passage of time. Because of inflation, the universe was able to expand faster than the speed of light. When we look out into the universe you would think that we would be able to find an edge, but we can't because the universe is bigger than the range in which we can see. Because light is finite we can only see so far out into the universe, the reason why we can't past this is because light hasn't had enough time to reach us yet. Then there are other ideas about the universe being a multiverse and pocket universes, but that's another story.

    • 2 years ago
  68. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @009infinity Yes.

    • 2 years ago
  69. JamesWolf Group Title
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_flow is an interesting mystery regarding the "uniformity" created during the inflation period.

    • 2 years ago
  70. rvgupta Group Title
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    cliff do u want to say that im a fool

    • 2 years ago
  71. 009infinity Group Title
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    but i also have who will prove first u or i @CliffSedge

    • 2 years ago
  72. CliffSedge Group Title
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    I'm sorry, I provided a bad link to a David Deutch article. I still recommend his book, The Beginning of Infinity.

    • 2 years ago
  73. 009infinity Group Title
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    ''that is created must be destroyed" here is the proof

    • 2 years ago
  74. JamesWolf Group Title
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    I dont think cliff is calling you a fool. i just dont think we understand these theories. Its easy to just regurgitate what good scientists say but until we get in there and start understanding the equations we really dont know what were talking about

    • 2 years ago
  75. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @rvgupta , I am not interested in discussing whatever words you are trying to put in my mouth.

    • 2 years ago
  76. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @009infinity "''that is created must be destroyed" here is the proof" That is a pithy statement without meaning.

    • 2 years ago
  77. rvgupta Group Title
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    so is there any conclusion

    • 2 years ago
  78. CliffSedge Group Title
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    Conclusion (based on best current science): The universe is finite and without boundary.

    • 2 years ago
  79. JamesWolf Group Title
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    "Does our universe have an edge? if yes. Explain" No

    • 2 years ago
  80. rvgupta Group Title
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    would u people like to discuss it tomorrow

    • 2 years ago
  81. JamesWolf Group Title
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    Sure though i cant really add much

    • 2 years ago
  82. rvgupta Group Title
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    i will surely give u some astonishing proofs

    • 2 years ago
  83. 009infinity Group Title
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    i m ready for genune ones ;)

    • 2 years ago
  84. rvgupta Group Title
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    so i am ready to give

    • 2 years ago
  85. CliffSedge Group Title
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    To count as "astonishing proofs' I will need to see observational data confirmed by at least one other independent source, references to peer-reviewed journals, and any theoretical explanations must be annotated with statements of falsifiability, and relevant criticism from professional scientists. Good luck!

    • 2 years ago
  86. JamesWolf Group Title
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    setting the bar low then... :P

    • 2 years ago
  87. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @JamesWolf Yes, but ya' know, this is only OpenStudy, nothing serious.

    • 2 years ago
  88. rvgupta Group Title
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    what time do u decide to discuss then

    • 2 years ago
  89. CliffSedge Group Title
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    I don't know. I log on once-in-a-while when I'm not busy with other stuff. If I don't go out later after work, then I might be back on around 02:00 GMT tomorrow.

    • 2 years ago
  90. rvgupta Group Title
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    r u ready 2 hours before this time

    • 2 years ago
  91. mayankdevnani Group Title
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    good question but answer is no

    • 2 years ago
  92. mayankdevnani Group Title
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    @rvgupta

    • 2 years ago
  93. mayankdevnani Group Title
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    http://nerdfighteria.info/index.php?title=The_Universe_Has_NO_EDGE!

    • 2 years ago
  94. mayankdevnani Group Title
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    ok

    • 2 years ago
  95. rvgupta Group Title
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    |dw:1349953336768:dw|

    • 2 years ago
  96. mayankdevnani Group Title
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    no still not

    • 2 years ago
  97. mayankdevnani Group Title
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    scroll up and go through the link

    • 2 years ago
  98. rvgupta Group Title
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    i have read that all and they can be true but some theories like M theory predicts that our universe is not only the universe and it can have edge however this theory is still unproven

    • 2 years ago
  99. mayankdevnani Group Title
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    ok

    • 2 years ago
  100. twitter Group Title
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    I don't believe in M and String theory. all of that are hocus pocus. It is more toward mathematics and philosophy or pseudoscience rather than physics. If you can't experiment with it, it just a beautiful guess.

    • 2 years ago
  101. twitter Group Title
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    There is one feature I notice that is generally missing in M and String Theories. It's a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty — a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if you're doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid — not only what you think is right about it; other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked — to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated. Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if you know them. You must do the best you can — if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong — to explain it. If you make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well as those that agree with it. There is also a more subtle problem. When you have put a lot of ideas together to make an elaborate theory, you want to make sure, when explaining what it fits, that those things it fits are not just the things that gave you the idea for the theory; but that the finished theory makes something else come out right, in addition. In summary, the idea is to try to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another.

    • 2 years ago
  102. twitter Group Title
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    That's why I dislike someone who came with a theory that claim something so big yet so little prove. When asked the prove, they say "Oh just believe in me. Because this theory is SOOO beautiful." It's like a religion really. No wonder people have less honour about physics now. M and String theory are not science yet they promote it as is.

    • 2 years ago
  103. twitter Group Title
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    It is crazy, nonsense, and the wrong direction for physics. It is new version of medieval theology, and I wish to keep string theorists out of physics.

    • 2 years ago
  104. twitter Group Title
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    The entire mainstream modern physics band waggon has ignored REAL PHYSICSTS for simplicity and understanding what is known for sure, and has gone off in the other direction (magical unexplainable religion) and built up a 10 dimensional superstring model whose conveniently ‘explained’ Calabi-Yau compactification of the unseen 6 dimensions can take 10500 different forms (conveniently explained away as a ‘landscape’ of unobservable parallel universes, from which ours is picked out using the anthropic principle that because we exist, the values of fundamental parameters we observe must be such that they allow our existence).

    • 2 years ago
  105. twitter Group Title
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    … I do feel strongly that this is nonsense! … I think all this superstring stuff is crazy and is in the wrong direction. … I don’t like it that they’re not calculating anything. I don’t like that they don’t check their ideas. I don’t like that for anything that disagrees with an experiment, they cook up an explanation … All these numbers [particle masses, etc.] … have no explanations in these string theories – absolutely none!’

    • 2 years ago
  106. twitter Group Title
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    Besides, what is really there in string is not mathematical beauty, rather, it is mathematical ugliness and scientific failure.

    • 2 years ago
  107. twitter Group Title
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    Moreover, string theory is NOT even wrong because it does not provide any testable predictions. it has nothing statistical to back it up therefore it is not a valid scientific theory, it is non falsifiable as it currently stands, thus it is not even wrong, it's closer to philosophy atm; that to my mind is uncontestable; if you can show me evidence of string theory then I'll change my mind. Thus for someone to make an argument based upon M theory is just stupid.

    • 2 years ago
  108. twitter Group Title
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    In conclusion: String and M theories are in the same category with intelligent design, religion, philosophy. They are in a basket or branch of CRAZY department.

    • 2 years ago
  109. UnkleRhaukus Group Title
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    the universe has an edge like a cloud , the universe is where all the energy and matter exist, at the 'edge' is where there concentration of energy and matter diminishes to zero this is a fuzzy boundary

    • 2 years ago
  110. UnkleRhaukus Group Title
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    |dw:1349962712340:dw|

    • 2 years ago
  111. rvgupta Group Title
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    it somewhat depends on the shape of the universe whether its shape is spherical and like slices of breads proposed by some scientists

    • 2 years ago
  112. rvgupta Group Title
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    you can be right

    • 2 years ago
  113. CliffSedge Group Title
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    @twitter , I love you.

    • 2 years ago
  114. twitter Group Title
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    Hey man love you too. screw string theory. It degrades physics.

    • 2 years ago
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