## natasha.aries Group Title Hiii can someone help me with a Physics problem? Please and thank ya! :) one year ago one year ago

1. natasha.aries Group Title

2. furnessj Group Title

oh boy, I looked at it! too late to get into though. you should get good help with that one, though it is tricky again..

3. ivanmlerner Group Title

OK, the work done is basically the force thats is influencing the movement times the distance, So we need to find the projection of the force in the direction of the movement, and it must be equal to the force of gravity summed with the friction, because it cannot have any aceleration for the speed to remain constant, and force=ma

4. ivanmlerner Group Title

Considering that, we get:$-mg-\mu N+Fsin \theta=0$

5. ivanmlerner Group Title

The normal force is the force balancing the force thats pulling the block towards the wall so:$N=Fcos \theta$

6. ivanmlerner Group Title

So the work done is given by:$W=\Delta xFsin \theta=(mg+\mu Fcos \theta)\Delta x$

7. natasha.aries Group Title

how do we find the change in x?

8. ivanmlerner Group Title

Now, whats missing is F. To find it we use the fact that the total force on the object must be zero. $Fsin \theta=mg+\mu N=mg+\mu Fcos \theta$Isolating F we get:$Fsin \theta-F \mu \cos \theta =mg$$F=\frac{mg}{\sin \theta-\mu \cos \theta}$Plug that into the formula for the work, and you have all the numbers now to calculate it. The change in x is given, it is 3m

9. natasha.aries Group Title

so instead of N should i plug in Fcosθ

10. ivanmlerner Group Title

This is the work done by F, now to get the work done by gravity it is easy, we have the change in x and we also have the magnitude of the force, the only tricky part is that the work must be negative, because the force is going against the movement and not favoring it.

11. natasha.aries Group Title

and what equation would we use for that?

12. ivanmlerner Group Title

Yes, for the first and$W_G=-\Delta x mg$for the second. Are you understanding what I'm doing here? Because this formula should be natural for you now.

13. natasha.aries Group Title

a little, not really because i havent used it before

14. natasha.aries Group Title

or at least i dont believe i have

15. furnessj Group Title

It is just gravitational potential in disguise natasha! (GPE=mgh) the work done is just the potential energy 'gained' (but negative)

16. natasha.aries Group Title

i understand the first part though, not really how you got the equation but how it makes sense

17. natasha.aries Group Title

but then where is the h @furnessj

18. ivanmlerner Group Title

Yes, thats it, the h is x, just a diferent name.

19. furnessj Group Title

h is the height gained, or just x here, anyway, leaving Ivan to it!

20. natasha.aries Group Title

oh okay, so why cant we keep it as h?

21. natasha.aries Group Title

oh okay!

22. ivanmlerner Group Title

If you understood everything so far, the only thing left is the normal force, wich you already have the formula for, and all the numbers involved. Just as a complementary comment for what furnessj said, the work done is also the change in the kinectic energy, and that is always true. However, the work is minus the change in the potential energy related to that force only if it is conservative, friction for example does work, but has no potential energy concept related to it.

23. ivanmlerner Group Title

Any doubts?

24. natasha.aries Group Title

no, but how can i find the normal force formula?

25. natasha.aries Group Title

@ivanmlerner ?

26. ivanmlerner Group Title

Oh, the normal force is the force that balances the force thats pulling the object towards the wall, so that it keeps still and don't "enter" the wall. It is the 3rd law of newton, that any force must have an opposite force balancing it. In this case what is pulling the object to the wall is the horizontal component of F, so its magnitude is Fcos theta

27. natasha.aries Group Title

Oh, it would be that simple?

28. ivanmlerner Group Title

Yes, that simple

29. gerryliyana Group Title

of course @natasha.aries , that simple :)

30. natasha.aries Group Title

haha! okay thanks! can i try plugging it in a few minutes, and would you be able to tell me if its right?

31. gerryliyana Group Title

ok... ur good learner .,

32. natasha.aries Group Title

haha thank you!

33. ivanmlerner Group Title

To give a medal for asking do I just click on best response by the asker?

34. natasha.aries Group Title

Yes!

35. natasha.aries Group Title

and when i did the first part i got 204 does that sound about right?

36. ivanmlerner Group Title

I got approximately 312 using g=10.

37. natasha.aries Group Title

the mass would be 5 correct?

38. ivanmlerner Group Title

yes

39. natasha.aries Group Title

idk what i did wrong :/

40. ivanmlerner Group Title

Are you talking about part (a)?

41. natasha.aries Group Title

yes

42. ivanmlerner Group Title

Did you use a calculator? If you did, check for missing parentesis. Also, did you use w=xFsin theta? with that formula for F?

43. natasha.aries Group Title

yes, it would be (5)(9.81) / (3sin30-.3cos30) right?

44. ivanmlerner Group Title

That would be F, but you got an extra 3 in the denominator in front of sin(30)

45. ivanmlerner Group Title

You still need to multiply that by 3, and by sin(30)

46. natasha.aries Group Title

wait, im confused. so it would be (5)(9.81) / (sin30-.3cos30) but why do we need to multiply it by 3sin30 ?

47. natasha.aries Group Title

anyone?

48. ivanmlerner Group Title

Sorry, I had to go in a rush, look at the formula for work on the begining of my posts:$W=\Delta xFsin \theta$So the one you are using is the one for F alone, and 3sin(30) is the rest: change in x=3 and sin theta=sin(30). Take a look again at the thinking I made to get to the first answer.

49. natasha.aries Group Title

its all good! and now i get 306 :)

50. natasha.aries Group Title

and so for the last one it would be 306(cos)30?

51. ivanmlerner Group Title

Using 9.81 as g that is correct, and for the second thats almost it.

52. ivanmlerner Group Title

306 is correct, but this is the work done by the force.

53. ivanmlerner Group Title

On the last it is asking for the normal, wich is a force, not work.

54. ivanmlerner Group Title

It is given by Fcos(30) and F is what you were calculating before.

55. ivanmlerner Group Title

F= that 204 you were calculating.

56. natasha.aries Group Title

but Fcos(30) is the normal force?

57. natasha.aries Group Title

i got 204 by mistake though

58. ivanmlerner Group Title

Yes, read what I wrote on the begining. You got 204 calculating the force alone, you had forgotten the other terms but here the force is exacly what you need, take a look at the begining and try to understand that, you don't seem to have understood it well.

59. natasha.aries Group Title

i tried it again, and still didnt get that :/

60. natasha.aries Group Title

im sorry :(

61. ivanmlerner Group Title

Wait, I said 204 is the force, not the answer, the answer is 204cos(30)

62. natasha.aries Group Title

but i dont get 204 at all

63. ivanmlerner Group Title

The formulas are:$N=Fcos \theta$$F=\frac{mg}{\sin \theta-\mu \cos \theta}$

64. ivanmlerner Group Title

The explanation for them is in the begining.

65. natasha.aries Group Title

i did that

66. ivanmlerner Group Title

Where you using that?

67. natasha.aries Group Title

yes

68. ivanmlerner Group Title

Show the numbers again.

69. natasha.aries Group Title

5)(9.81) / (sin30-.3cos30)

70. ivanmlerner Group Title

And you need to multiply all of that by cos(30)

71. natasha.aries Group Title

i finally got it! thats what ive been doing! i just separated it a few more times now. thank you so much. so the first one you would multiply it by 3sin30 and the last one cos30?

72. ivanmlerner Group Title

Yes, but remember what those numbers mean.

73. natasha.aries Group Title

i will, im just unsure with how u knew which equations to use

74. ivanmlerner Group Title

I didn't I foun out wich one I needed to use, and I posted wverything I did, project the force to find the work, see what force is causing the normal, do the math and you get to the formulas.

75. natasha.aries Group Title

when i checked the answers, the right answers were 310J... -150J...180 N

76. natasha.aries Group Title

310 for a -150 for b and 180 for c

77. natasha.aries Group Title

i got a similar answer for the first 2 parts, but not for the third!

78. ivanmlerner Group Title

Remember that on the last one you only need to multiply the force F (204N) by cos(30) (sqrt(3)/2) because we need the projection of the force at the direction perpendicular to the wall. If you use those numbers you'll get the answer.

79. natasha.aries Group Title

why sqrt of 3/2 ?

80. natasha.aries Group Title

i think you just mean cos30 because those two are the same things :)

81. ivanmlerner Group Title

What?? wait, thats what i meant:$\cos 30°=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}$