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Study23

  • 2 years ago

Okay, so here's the thing. I'm REALLY REALLY CONFUSED BY IMPLICIT DIFFERENTIATION!!! The FUNCTION: \(\ \large x^3+x^2y+4x^2=6 \). Find \(\ \frac{dy}{dx} \). I've been on this problem for some 45 minutes, and have gotten no where on this homework assignment (this is the first problem). So, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME!!! SHOW me STEP-BY-STEP PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much in advance!!!!!

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  1. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    (I tried solving this problem, but I got a drastically incorrect problem! D: )

  2. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    answer* not problem

  3. ivanmlerner
    • 2 years ago
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    What implicit diferentiation does, is the same thing as the normal diferentiation. You diferentiate on both sides in respect to one variable, and the derivative of the other variable that depends on the first appears isolated in normal diferentiation, and not isolated in implicit, you only need to isolate it. In your function, you first diferentiate on both sides in respect to x, you can of course isolate y, wich is easy in this function, but lets do it in the way the problem wants to. Diferentiating on both sides, what have you got?

  4. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Ummmm...... \(\ \Large 3x^2+2xy+8x=0? \)

  5. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    @ivanmlerner

  6. ivanmlerner
    • 2 years ago
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    Ok, everything is correct but the second term. Now, remember that y is a function of x and therefore cannot be considered a constant.

  7. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Ok... So now what do I do

  8. ivanmlerner
    • 2 years ago
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    Try to diferentiate the second term considering that, do you remember what you do when you are diferentiating a multiplication of functions?

  9. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Product Rule? But that's where I get stuck with this problem. HOW do I do that?

  10. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    Let's do just the \(x^2 y\) as an example. First, we remember the product rule d(u v) = u dv + v du second, we take the derivative with respect to x \[ \frac{d}{dx} x^2y= x^2 \frac{d}{dx}y + y \frac{d}{dx}x^2\] look carefully at this expression \[ \frac{d}{dx}y \text{ is just } \frac{dy}{dx}\] and \[ \frac{d}{dx}x^2 \text { is } 2 x \frac{d}{dx}x= 2x \frac{dx}{dx} = 2x\] we find \[ \frac{d}{dx} x^2y= x^2 \frac{dy}{dx} + 2xy \]

  11. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Hmmm. So the derivative of \(\ \Large x^2y \text{ is } x^2\frac{dy}{dx}+2xy \text{ ?} \)

  12. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Wouldn't that be \(\ \Large 2x+2xy \text{ ?} \)

  13. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    yes, I hope you are able to see how to get it.

  14. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    I was able to follow along, thank you for that explanation @phi. Now, how do I proceed solving the original problem?

  15. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    Finish the derivative (they are all just x terms so they are what you are used to...) then "solve" for dy/dx First what do you get for the derivate?

  16. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    I haven't finished the problem, Ill try to solve it now..

  17. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    I get \(\ \Large \frac{dy}{dx} = -\frac{3}{16x^2y}\)

  18. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    How?!

  19. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    remember \[ \frac{d}{dx} x^2y= x^2 \frac{dy}{dx} + 2xy \]

  20. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    But the correct answer is: \(\ \Large y'=\frac{-x(3x+2y)}{x^2+8y} .... \text{ I don't know what I did wrong!!! :(}\)

  21. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Here's what I did: |dw:1352765472314:dw|

  22. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    =0.

  23. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    And then, I:

  24. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    \[3x^2+ 2xy+x^2y'+8x=0,\] \[2xy+x^2y'+8x=-3x^2,\]\[2xy+x^2y'=\frac{-3x}{8}\] \[x^2y'=\frac{3x}{8\times2xy}\] \[\text{So, } y'=\frac{-3x}{8\times2xy\times x^2}\] \[\text{which equals:} \frac{dy}{dx} \frac{-3}{16x2y}\]

  25. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    That 2 in the denominator is an exponent

  26. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    yes that looks ok \[ 3x^2 +2xy + x^2 \frac{dy}{dx} +8x=0\] you can factor out an x. \[ 3x +2y + x \frac{dy}{dx} +8=0\] move the x dy/dx to the other side \[ 3x +2y + 8= -x \frac{dy}{dx} \] divide by -x \[ \frac{-3x-2y-8}{x} = \frac{dy}{dx} \] compare to wolfram http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=implicit+diff++x%5E3%2Bx%5E2y%2B4x%5E2%3D6.

  27. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Why \(\ x^2 \frac{dy}{dx} ? \)

  28. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    Your algebra is "suspect". You should be adding or subtracting terms not dividing

  29. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    Why \( x^2dy/dx?\) Review the post up above where I take the derivative of x^2 y

  30. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    Your "correct answer" does not match this problem...

  31. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Could I use y' in place of dy/dx? Also, so the product rule is the reason why it is x^2 dy/dx???

  32. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    yes y' for dy/dx is ok. just so long as you remember what it means... and yes the product rule is d (u * v) = u * dv + v*du that u*dv means you leave u "alone" and multiply times the derivative of v if we match u with x^2 and v with y, that means you have x^2 * d y

  33. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Okay, I think I get this now... I'll try this problem again. Thank you so much for spending the time with me @phi!!! A medal can not express the utmost appreciation I have for your help!

  34. phi
    • 2 years ago
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    I notice part of your trouble comes from not doing the algebra correctly. You may need to brush up on it...but post your questions and someone will help

  35. Study23
    • 2 years ago
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    Okay! You're right! On the past two tests I have lost points for distributive property errors not so much as for the calculus - it's more the algebra

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