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|dw:1361572558530:dw|

i know if you just plug in the value you get 0/0 so you use the rule

so i use the rule and get |dw:1361572627877:dw|

how do i get from here as you cant use the trigonometric substitution either

|dw:1361572546361:dw|

the derivative of tan is sec^2 x lol

so thats wrong

|dw:1361572818037:dw|
then differentiate from here

the limit goes to -infinity

Change your 1 -sec^2x into -tan^2x and see if that helps you simplify your ratio.

thats not how it works youcan never change 1 - sec^2 into tan^2x

you can change it into -tan^2x though, not tan^2x

ok im gonna try walters method

But that only makes it worse. Nevermind. Hang on.

you dont understand tan^2 x + 1 = sec^2x
try to change it to what you just did it never works

Move the 1 over, and then multiply both sides by a -1.

i thought about your method walter but its x not 1 - tanx

Without using L'hopital
|dw:1361573289043:dw|

so the solution is 1/0 but thats not gonna work either

no that is the question experimentX

oops, it's approaching zero, so the answer is -1/2

|dw:1361573583223:dw|

*once

Ah hell, then it's no longer of indeterminate form.

|dw:1361573754561:dw|

i think i got it now ty a lot

I need to go refresh my memory. Good luck to you.