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DanielR Group Title

Hi, sorry about my english , I teach Computer Science in my University ( C++) . I see in this course you don't use some thing like Flow Chart, I woud like to know about your experience teaching without this tool.Thank you.

  • one year ago
  • one year ago

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  1. RCMorea Group Title
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    I am certainly not qualified to answer this, but I think the idea of flow charting everything before coding is becoming less popular. I think it was more important in previous times, because in the past you would have to submit your code to be compiled by a central computer, and you would prefer to find as many bugs as possible before that point. Now, you can just run your real-time interpreter, and fix each problem as you find it, so there isn't as much need for flow charting. I do believe the charts are still used for software engineering on big projects where many people have to write code that fits together into one project, but it isn't so important on small programs.

    • one year ago
  2. DanielR Group Title
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    Thank you RCMorea for your poin fo view...

    • one year ago
  3. DanielR Group Title
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    I think in use flow chart to organize their ideas o thought more than find bugs.

    • one year ago
  4. KonradZuse Group Title
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    As someone who works in the field, what is the point of Flowcharts? I never used them, and once I was approached by a student needing help. They were using C with flowcharts, and using a windows 95 program, where making a flowchart, and entering commands would create the C code. It really doesn't teach anything. It shows students how to use a tool they wont ever need to. Teach your students good coding practices, and how to start their journey into the world of coding. I really didn't have good teachers, they taught "Theory" not "how to code." We need instruction, not theories. :)

    • one year ago
  5. RCMorea Group Title
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    Well, I suppose there is something of the difference between physicists and engineers, one deals mainly in theory and one deals mainly in application, yet both need both. I would expect a professional coder, like a professional engineer, to lean towards application, but that doesn't mean theory hasn't got its place. But, for flowcharts, what I never liked about them (and I am talking over my head--as person who has exactly one course in BASIC twenty years ago for experience) but it always seemed that the actual drawing process took more time than the figuring out process. Only the figuring out process has real value, the drawing process has only "for a grade" value...which fortunately I no longer work for grades.

    • one year ago
  6. KonradZuse Group Title
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    theory has it's place, but teaching only that is useless when we are trying to create applications. Knowing how to use our tools, and knowing about our environment, is key. Yes they like us writing in pseudo code and such now, they like want to "mold our mind." :P

    • one year ago
  7. charpede Group Title
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    The only type of charts we've used in teaching programming have been UML. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Modeling_Language) And this is only used in the OOP courses. I've never heard of using a flowchart for programming.

    • one year ago
  8. Sagar_Rout Group Title
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    I think use of flowchart improves the understanding of the logical flow of the coding.It helps the developer understand what may happen that's the core objective of flowchart. But, we can use IBM's Rational Rose to draw UML which also help. that's main purpose of these tools.

    • one year ago
  9. JonnyTruelove Group Title
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    FLOW CHARTS are taught because its extremely important to visualize your code before you type anything! They will always be an important tool as long as we have a brain capable of thinking ahead.

    • one year ago
  10. KonradZuse Group Title
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    If you need to visualize your code you draw it out on paper. No need to waste your time writing a program for it. I personally don't need to "Visualize" my code on anything besides inside my head. You can design or do w/e you want outside of your code, but the only way to know if it works is by doing it. Go at the code, show it who's boss. You create your program by doing it. Everyone can do what they wish, but coming from someone who just finished school, and who is learning/has been learning for a few years now, it's really important to Learn the API, learn the syntax, learn good coding practices, and learn how to think about algorithms and applying them to real world needs. This is about people WANTING to learn, make it fun for them, that's what education is all about. We learn 150% better when we want to learn it, not when we are forced to learn.

    • one year ago
  11. rsmith6559 Group Title
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    With OOP, are flowcharts even relevant any more? Or should they just be put in the museum?

    • one year ago
  12. RCMorea Group Title
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    Though I wonder...has anyone ever implemented a programming language where you build the flowchart and then compile it? Where that IS the language. I think that would be cool.

    • one year ago
  13. olasunmibo Group Title
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    You can code a small program without flowchart, but as the work become complex need for flowchart is necessary as a good programmer, this will keep your work clean and clear. If there is any problem that arise while running your programming, you quickly sense of where the problem as arise. As for me I still by the idea of using flowchart, remember if you a good software engineer you still need UML which already has Flowchart in it

    • one year ago
  14. DanielR Group Title
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    well, I realy appreciate all yours opinions about Flow Chart, I'm realy happy to know there isn't a unique answer or unanime position, here in this part of the world, so far from the best educational center is good to know for us, we are on th way. Thank you.

    • one year ago
  15. KonradZuse Group Title
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    With languages out now coding is much easier to do, and easier to keep track of packages, classes, and code. UMLs, and Flowcharts aren't looked at much. UMLs, maybe, for big companies because they have 1000 programmers that need to keep up with each other, but that doesn't affect me, or my company, at all. The only thing that is important is knowing which class calls another class, and how all the classes work together. If you really want to teach about FLowcharts, make it a 5 minute mini-lecture. That's all it's really worth.

    • one year ago
  16. JonnyTruelove Group Title
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    Let me throw a couple MAXIMS your way so hopefully I can ENLIGHTEN you before you POISON everyone's mind. 80% OF CODING IS THOUGHT 90% OF THOUGHT IS SIMPLIFICATION 20% OF CODING IS ACTUALLY TYPING IT UP ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP WITH 90% OF THE WORK IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN JUST POUNDING OUT pelletTY CODE. ANY FIRST YEAR COMP SCI MAJOR SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOU THAT.

    • one year ago
  17. KonradZuse Group Title
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    First please don't curse. Second I'm "Poisoning" people's minds, because I say you shouldn't use flow charts? There are many "Levels" to what needs to be done. When you're a programmer you're given tasks to code by the comp architects, and you can do whatever you choose is "correct" for yourself. Why don't you share your wisdom on how to start a coding project? What real world coding experience do you have as well? You cannot honestly tell me you make a flow chart to code out an entire project before doing the actual project? The thing is brain storming is one part of it, that's all. You have to code. You can sit around all day thinking of some crazy algorithms, but it means nothing unless you code it out. You figure it out as you go along, that's how bugs are solved. When you code you're thinking like a computer, not like a human. That is more important to learn. When you fix your mistakes you learn why you were wrong and you learn tips and tricks. When you code you do a portion at a time, you don't plan the entire project out from scratch, that's a complete waste of time, and if something doesn't go according to original plan you're in trouble for the next n steps you planned ahead. Every variable, property, method, function, class, etc is a puzzle piece of a bigger project. You do it all there. Your pallet(API) is what matters. Your code must look elegant, it must work correct. Everything you do is the code. You could have the best ideas, but without the proper knowledge and code you're not accomplishing anything. It doesn't really matter what any "First year" comp sci student says, because they are a first year. Any real coder will tell you that what matters is the code itself. How well can one read, and decipher your code if need be. When you're in the real world you're coding with possibly 1000 other people. If your code is useless, you just messed up an operation. But yeah all that planning really worked out after that 50 revisions we needed to do :D.

    • one year ago
  18. poopsiedoodle Group Title
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    What is a flow chart even?

    • one year ago
  19. KonradZuse Group Title
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    ^Case in point... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/LampFlowchart.svg/220px-LampFlowchart.svg.png Basically it's a way to write out all the possibilities of how to work out your code. It's some old school method that they figured was good, but not really for this day and age. No one teaches it anymore, it's practically useless. I never saw one in my 4 years.

    • one year ago
  20. KonradZuse Group Title
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    Flow charts are cool for that lightbulb example, but if you're going to create something bigger than that you shouldn't waste your time.....

    • one year ago
  21. poopsiedoodle Group Title
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    Oh. Is it only for the C langauges?

    • one year ago
  22. poopsiedoodle Group Title
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    The only "flow" anything I've heard of are flowlayoutpanels.

    • one year ago
  23. KonradZuse Group Title
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    it works for anything, it's really more of a "tool" not really something for "languages."

    • one year ago
  24. poopsiedoodle Group Title
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    Oh.

    • one year ago
  25. KonradZuse Group Title
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    look at the link.... it shows what happens if a light bulb works or doesn't work. Poopsie do you think you would like writing one of those out?

    • one year ago
  26. poopsiedoodle Group Title
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    Oh. Not really. I've seen some humorous ones though. Didn't know that's what they were :P

    • one year ago
  27. KonradZuse Group Title
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    Yeah I've seen them on Facebook.... LOL.... I mean right not for example I am righting a 3D program for my company that deals with other companies like Target, and Walmart, and Kellogs, and big daddy companies. I'm "Brainstorming" and then plugging at it. I know exactly what I need to do, and how to do it. Why would I waste time planning it out when it's already accomplished? When you've coded for long enough your tools become part of you, and you know what to do naturally. It's like any profession. But na let me stop coding and write a flow chart. I'll maybe add some color to it ya know ;)

    • one year ago
  28. poopsiedoodle Group Title
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    Let me throw a couple MAXIMS your way so hopefully I can ENLIGHTEN you before you POISON everyone's mind. 80% OF CODING IS THOUGHT 90% OF THOUGHT IS SIMPLIFICATION 20% OF CODING IS ACTUALLY TYPING IT UP ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP WITH 90% OF THE WORK IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN JUST POUNDING OUT pelletTY CODE. ANY FIRST YEAR COMP SCI MAJOR SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOU THAT.

    • one year ago
  29. poopsiedoodle Group Title
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    Original post, do not steal please.

    • one year ago
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