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And what exactly is being done to discourage this behavior?
Well, there is a grey 'report abuse' button under each comment that a user makes. If you look carefully, you can see it under the comment I just made on this question. Once you click it, a little red tab will appear on your page, and will say the following: "You are reporting the user _________ for abuse. Abuse reports are only sent to moderators and are kept confidential. Please consider our Code of Conduct and Terms and Conditions before reporting an abusive user. Add your comments below (optional):" They will provide a little box for you to make your case. Here, you explain the situation, i.e., "user was encouraging cheating, which breaks the OS Code of Conduct." Once you hit send, your complaint will be sent to the moderators of OS (the people in purple). They then have the authority to close or delete the offensive or wrong post, warn or suspend the offending user, or other actions as they deem necessary. Hope this helped! :)
P.S. When you yourself make a comment, you will not be able to see the report abuse button - there is no need to report yourself! :)
no i dont think you can unless they are using it during a test if they are then ya report it and they will get baned
I knew about the report abuse button. I was hoping for something a little bit more severe as the "report abuse" button is kind of fruitless and does not discourage this behavior. I teach at a cyber school, and I see too many students on here simply copying and pasting test questions and answers. The worst part is that they see nothing wrong with what they're doing.
Yeah, that's entirely justified. That's actually one of the main reasons to report people.
Well yes, I understand it's completely justified. What I'm saying is that hitting the report button does very little stop the problem. I want bigger results for the amount of time I spend on here looking for copied and pasted answers that I see on every test I open. I just want results, and I know lots of other teachers that do too. This is getting out of hand.
This is a problem the site moderators have been working on for a while. I think our best bet is to see what they can do about it. Unfortunately, there are some people who are going to do what they are going to do, regardless of the repercussions. Those are the users who just don't want to learn, unfortunately. There's always going to be someone who just wants the easy way out. In those cases, we can only do what we can do - report abuse, alert the mods, and wait for them and the administrators to come up with solutions. (They're working on them as we speak.)
@MissTeacherLady16 I sure understand this sad problem, and I can say what we on OS are trying to do everything we can to prevent cheating. As I answer questions mostly in the biology section, I'm gonna talk form the experence I have from there. By the increase of test distribution, the moderators set up the rule that we may not provide strict answers (or answers in point form), this is banable offence.(http://openstudy.com/users/frostbite#/updates/50d4dce8e4b069916c843906 ) We have then tried to provide general theory and hints in order for them to be able to answer the question them self, or encourage them to read some kind of literature (web pages ect.). However from personal experience I haven't found this to work, as they just seek out elsewhere looking for the answers. Now this situation is both bad for the students and OpenStudy as I see it. Therefore mostly all today is giving away the answer along with a explanation why and the theory behind it. The last scenario I like you to think about if this also is bad influence on the students. OS become just like a book as they also give the answer along with the explanation why. The biggest difference/challenge might just be, that the students would find it easier to only using OpenStudy instead of their textbook. Then again the best objective for both the teachers, helpers and the students (even if they are unaware of it) is that we can help them to solve each problem but by not giving away the answer. The second best solution (that might be the best solution for problems that is rote learn) is to provide the answer along with theory, or try to hide the answer within the theory. To achieve the objective not only the students need to make a effort, but also the ones who want to help them, as it is much more easy to give away an answer than the explanation. Now the above is part reality, part wishful thinking. Depending on what you think is cheating we may be able to reach a reasonable goal just by thinking in these terms.
Forgot to add, that the process of rewriting is also a good indication if the students understand the answer. By encouraging the askers to rewrite our answers combined with the theory, the purpose have been fulfilled. If that is an acceptable way, it should not be hard to catch the cheaters. A program can be designed to catch anyone who have just been copy pasting without rewriting, such product is for example known from the swedish company Urkund
@trashman914 You keep saying that you were banned from reporting too many people, but there is not such a thing. Especially when you report 3 people. When I get suspended, with something saying "too many abuse reports.", it ALWAYS means that I've been reported too much.
Yeah, what he said.
And I think that this is a problem, yes, but isn't reporting a user quite enough ?? Another problem is that when the asker tends to be lazy, they get mad at me for not providing the full answer!! So another problem is that the askers try to get sorta mad at you when you don't give them the full answer, thus discouraging this!!
@Frostbite, I make myself available everyday for my students. They can call or email me. I am more than willing to set up tutoring times. I make note-sheets for every lesson they complete. I make interactive powerpoints. I have live instruction, which I record and post, so that my students may view it as many times as need. I spend HOURS making review sheets for each test and then I spend HOURS going over it during live instruction (which is also recorded and posted). I encourage students to call me when they are taking a test, if they are confused. I also talk with my students about good studying strategies.I link past concepts with new concepts. I apply concepts/theories in biology to current events. I try very hard to think like a 15 year old so that I can make biology not just easier to under but also FUN to understand. I call my students INCESSANTLY offering help, reminding them of all of the above, and generally encouraging them to try their best, making sure that I note I will reward HARD work. At the risk of sounding whiny, I am really stretching myself as far as I can to make sure my students are successful. It would be wrong for me to say that all my students ignore this help - several of them do take me up on all of my offers (even if they don't inherently need it). However, it is down right disheartening to see the work students are submitting, completely ignoring ME and all the work I do for THEIR success. It makes me feel like I am just wasting my time. And before you try to argue with me, just know that have damn near 200 students total in biology (CP or GP) and I would estimate that nearly 70% of them are cheating, whether they are using this site, yahooanswers, wikianswers, or some other new hot search tool. Tell me how to not be depressed by that statistic? I need ANSWERS. I know that even if this site was shut down right this instant, students will go on to cheat. But we are really facing a much more serious issue as far as accountability and academic integrity goes. I am exacerbated. June has never felt so out of reach before now - I'm losing my gusto.
I wish I had a teacher like you @MissTeacherLady16 !
@sk_ca @rc_ca @kar_ca if they are still around, these might be able to discuss this issue on more one to one terms.
Why not just implement a system, of where people can voted to have questions deleted/closed?
i talked to @RC_CA Yesterday and he said he has been busy with alot of stuff but he/she wants to get on.
@missteacherlady16 , I have to admit I've used this site to facilitate less than honest behavior before, both assisting and being assisted. However, it all comes down to this: Whatever you cheat and don't learn, kills you on the standardized test. Ultimately there is a level playing ground.
@inkyvoyd at the risk of sounding too vulgar (and therefore un-teacher like), that's real sh*tty reasoning. I care very little about standardized testing (except that the fact that my job security is almost completely reliant on it). I care more about what the act of cheating means on the whole person. Kids need to understand the value of hard work. Kids need to understand that cheating is wrong, not just because it angers me but because ultimately they're only hurting themselves. Kids need to be held accountable bc when leave school the real world is much much more harsh, and cheating isn't always an option. I don't expect all my students to be biologist. But I do want them to be functioning members of society with a good head on their shoulders, questioning the world, looking for solutions, and just being all around good, hard working people. This isn't just about cheating on biology tests, we're talking about an issue that whether they believe it or not fosters the idea that the shortest way to get to a solution is always the best option. I'm worried, very worried, about the implications this will have on our future. So yes, I care very little about standardized testing.
@missTeacherlady16 the problem is that WE AS MODS/ADMINS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS CHEATING! You must be a teacher from Connexus, or Connections, so I want to ask you, please give us copies of your tests, homeworks, etc. If we as mods had access to this vital info, we could delete most everything that is connected to the tests. The next problem is that users aren't banned @Preetha we go over this every week, the same issues non-stop. I think it's time to actually implement a ban feature. Seeing as most kids are on connexus, connections, etc I doubt people use the library, instead of at home. Amistre64 is the only one I've seen actually ujsing a library. The problem we are looking at is "what if a poor student cannot log into open study?" Well the EXTREMELY rare chance that 2 students will use the library at the same time. (What happens if one user was suspended and another user randomly came on and we suspended them for being suspended, even though it was another user, but since our IP Checker says otherwise... IMO this is a SERIOUS issue, and the problem isn't going to be "what do we do for the kids" but "how are we going to keep openstudy alive if teachers and educational institutions petition to shut us down because we are a source of cheating.
@missteacherlady16 , of course cheating is wrong. However, I'll have to refer to a commonly cited quote - "it's not cheating if you don't get caught". I take an online math class (calculus), and I used to be enrolled in an online school. The main reason I know I have assisted others in cheating is that upon googling many of the problems, they appear on yahoo answers. Not only that, but many of the students don't even bother taking out the (x points). Other people would assume that these are homework grades. This is true, but only 10% of the time. More likely than not, these are actually all tests. But, it's not cheating if you don't get caught. Kids will continue to use this site if they believe it is advantageous to play dirty. And what if it is? That is a serious problem then - we are effectively suggesting that cheaters are more successful than honest people. Furthermore, it is impossible to easily ban people from this site. I see "new" users every day. Unfortunately, many of these users have been on Openstudy for a long time, using it purely as a cheating site. Having no moderator power and realizing that report abuse does not always function in a timely matter, I choose instead to help all, but I try never to explicitly state the answer. Not only that, but I never choose to show more than a few steps of work at once. Many people who write down their entire thought process believe they are helping the kids. They aren't - the cheaters COPY the entire thing, and instead of just having an answer, they have also shown "their" work. I encourage this behavior among other helpers - but ultimately my method is extremely frustrating because it takes one new helper or someone with a different philosophy to come along, and give the answer, and ruin the whole thing (whether or not they explained their answer is irrelevant because said OP only wants the answer). Not only that, but it's very hard to get a higher smart score if you don't want medals: I used to be in it for the medals, until conscience kinda hit me in the behind. One last thing: I talk about OS like there are only cheaters and dishonesty is widespread. I do not know the extent of the seriousness of this problem, but this is actually an estimation of mine. Once in a blue moon I come to someone who actually wants to learn. This is one of the main reasons I'm still even on this site.
I know that cheating does not always work. Back when I was taking online courses (such as online Algebra two), I knew most of the content beforehand. However, I did not know much about conic sections, and when our curriculum got to that point, I chose not to memorize important features such as focal points directrixes and other characteristics, instead choosing to google answers or simply use an open textbook. No one was there to stop me. And so I did. I didn't learn much about conics, but I got my usual straight As on that portion of the test. Most everybody was satisfied: me for getting straight As on this part, my parents for getting As, my teacher for getting an A, my school district for getting a good grade, and the state for a kid who got good grades. So I continued this dishonest behavoir, and that school year ended less than legitimately. I felt 0 side effects - that is, until 2 years later, when I wanted to self study calculus. When I reached the portion with conics, I realized I had a huge gaping hole of knowledge that was not assumed to exist. I pretty much had to review conics (even know most of the characterstics won't stick in my head) in order to understand that part of calc/analytic geometry. I do realize that this is a long term issue. The question is, how does one make this long term issue evident to everyone in the short term? Cheaters will find it easier to cheat than to learn. I believe that in addition to active measures to stop cheaters, one needs preventive measures to help kids understand why they should not cheat. My classic self-scare is the standardized test. Why? Because it applies to many students, and it's not very far away most of the time. You can't cheat on a standardized test, and getting below average would be pretty embarassing, right? I've tried reasoning with these kids. I've told them that what they choose not to do now will haunt them later. I've even tried to brand myself as a cheater (perhaps rightfully so) and tell them that I paid for it. The kids just ignore me (ignoring their conscience), and search for others who will help them in their dishonesty. Instead of focusing completely on punishing cheaters and catching them, our society should spend time on preventive measures. This, however, seems impractical. There is so much time between results and so few results to measure that many people choose to try to catch cheaters (which does not work, by the way. I'm a student, and I've seen cheating and also personally cheated, even when certain safeguards existed.) If we tried to implement preventive measures, what would they even be though? To clarify, I mean preventive by educative, such as trying to explain why cheating is bad.
Also, I think another way you could "test" students in online courses would be to make them TAKE THE FINAL IN PERSON. I took statistics and Calculus 2 via an online college, where I did get help on OS from TuringTest and others who were EXTREMELY helpful in teaching me Calculus 2. It didn't matter if I cheated on EVERYTHING on OPENSTUDY(which I didn't) if I didn't get a 60 on that final, I failed the course, simple. If every student had this REQUIRED they would think twice about cheating as much, or at all. It's easy to cheat when you wont have to worry about grades and such, but when you have a final at the end of your semester, and you wasted 6 months cheating, and you get a 30 on the test, not only does the school know you cheated, but you have to spend ANOTHER 6 MONTHS "cheating" or actually learning now. Also when these young minds enter college, or the work force, and they cannot do basic algebra, well, it's their fault :).
@KonradZuse , this is why I do not cheat on AP calculus BC. I have an AP test that determines whether or not a year's worth of math is actually worth anything. ;)
Exactly, it's the same whne I took "REgents" in NY hs. If we failed we needed to retake it... ALso if there is an issue taking these "in house finals" by students, it's an excuse. I took both of my finals after moving from NY to FL and finding a local CC. You can take it in a Library, school, college, or other "certified" place. Personally I HATED having to go in and take an In house final, and I probably shouldn't have suggested it, but when you're in HS, taking all of your courses, compared to me taking a JOKE stats class and not wanting to travel 30 mins each way, it's different.
The main problem I see with "in house finals" is that the teachers and admins are as reluctant to do it as the students. Why? Because they, too, fear a level playing field. They'd rather everyone graduate and get a good grade the first time, than be exposed to scrutiny for everyone failling since they couldn't cheat.
The best part of this WHOLE CONVO is "why do students cheat?" As a student who has HATED the "educational system" for a very long time, and as someone who WANTS TO LEARN WHAT I NEED IN LIFE let me explain a few things. First let me explain who I am. I am a computer science graduate who works for a few companies, as well as contracting work. I work mostly for a plannogram company that builds store layouts for stores such as Walmart, Target, and Best Buy. When I went to school I went to aprivate school, and then went to public HS. The "education" was a joke. You learned math, science, and "English" for 8 years, then you came into hs and learned the same things for another 4 years. College came oooh I'm excited maybe I will learn something, but no, I come in paying 10's of thousands of dollars to a institution, only to teach me 23 CLASSES (69 or so) credits of 120 credit major, was (DECS) General Education GARBAGE. My first coding class in 11th grade was nothing more than a complete joke. We spent the entire time planning an RPG game, but spent a month learning how to code nothing, let along a full scale GUI game. I came into College with a bright outlook, but was shot down. In my "computer science" classes we learned useless theory, and no code. Code was something we did on our own, or if it was my second semester they did the code for us, and gave uis that bright A, as if we accomplished something. The problem is I learned nothing. I came into school, from the age of 3, knowing I wanted to be a software engineer/computer architect like my father, but was shot down my entire educational career. I told myself the only way to learn, is to learn on my own, which is what I did, and I am here now. So what does this mean to you, and why am I mentioning it with cheating? The simple answer is because they are learning something, so incredibly boring, they have no interest to even ATTEMPT the work. THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, AND WHY I ALWAYS BRING IT UP. http://openstudy.com/users/konradzuse#/updates/51003511e4b00c5a3be69f64 is where we discussed the online bill of rights. Why do students not care about their education? How do we get students to "want to learn?" Teach them things that actually interest them. If I work or learn something I don't care about I'll give 20% attention to it, so if that translates to the work world I only give 20% output in my job, that loses my boss money, and eventually I get fired. When I learn something I want to learn, and it interests me I give it 150%. So when I'm working on my programming assignments that I have to do for my clients, I make sure to give my all, because I'm having a ton of fun, and I'm enjoying work. "Work isn't work if it's fun." is a quote I live by. Please read this article about MBA's http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323884304578328243334068564.html?KEYWORDS=mba I quote from this article "When you are competing against 3.5 billion people, it pays to be different. But getting another university degree doesn't make you different." We are teaching our students to be zombies and to all be the same, this is the problem. Teach us, and our kids ACTUAL SKILLS NEEDED FOR THE REAL WORLD. TEACH KIDS THINGS THEY WANT TO LEARN, MAKE THEM "INTERESTED" IN THE FIELDS. I am a computer scientist, and I really want to know why I needed 20 years of History classes. My 1 semester of History of Computer Science was FASCINATING, guess where I got the name "Konrad Zuse" from? I enjoyed it, I loved it, I watched it so close, so hard, because I wanted to. I took a class that I wanted, and I learned from it, why can't everyone have that same choice? Again I am the lucky one. I knew from the age of 3 that I wanted to do computers, and I made sure I learned the skills needed, on my own. The thing is what about the students who don't know what they want? I know College juniors and seniors who don't know what they want, and guess what we now have another unemployed person with no skills out there. That or they go to the army. TRUST ME on this one, if the educational system actually taught us useful skills, and taught us how to persue the path WE WANT I GUARANTEE you will ELIMINATE, or come close to it, cheating.
@frostbite has a point there and speaking of education system ,the change we ask for needs understanding from people at various levels to implement .There are some who are present in various levels of society who do not want to go against the conventional methods of cheating .It takes a BIG movement to change the education system . But if IMPLEMENED it can work wonders . As @KonradZuse said students will give their 150% effort they like what they are doing . There is a saying "Chase excellence then success will follow you " , THIS should be the goal of any education system , they SHOULD teach students to CHASE excellence not to chase MARKS! Definitely marks will be a piece of cake if you are EXCELLENT. Majority of the students who resort to cheating are those who are forced from parental pressure to score high marks. They chase marks BLINDLY and never get time to LOVE what they do .As far as the conversation here progressed I liked variety of points that came up .I came across this article which contains reasons for why students CHEAT. http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/acad_int/why.html excerpts from the article: "Students and their families often have very high expectations about grade achievements because they are accustomed to getting As. More pressure comes from the emphasis on grades in hiring and graduate admissions. Some students may feel pressured to develop unorthodox means to get competitive and marketable credentials.." "Instructors often underestimate students' need for multiple assignments to get feedback, to receive a fair grade, and to stay motivated to learn. Sometimes in an effort to reduce the workload, they may not think about the intense pressure on students when a course grade is based only on a midterm and a final. Or, in an effort to provide lots of timely practice and feedback, others may lose track of how much pressure students feel to meet deadlines." Isn't it time for CHANGE?
The first 9 years of one's life are needed for "basic?" NO that's 100% incorrect. For some reason we start off in Kindergarten and first grade learning nothing. We slowly actually start to learn some skills as we go up the ranks. Basics like Math, Science, History and English could be taught in 2 years max. The problem is education is so innificient. Why learn multiplication, additional, subtraction, and division 1-8 then learn it again in Algebra for the next 5 years of your life. Sad thing is I know college sophmores learning Algebra, which is something you should have knwon in 5th grade. It's really not a big change to fix the educational system. We just had the Online Bill of Rights signed, and with the addition of Online School,s, tjhey should do what is actually beneficial to us.
I agree that Basics like Math, Science, History and English could be taught in 2 years max. But the thing is to the subjects to sink in and become part of ourselves more time is required .That is why we see this in every education system . A continouous slow learning builds up a strong foundation and also makes sure you get familiar with it through time
On an unrelated note - it's taking me a long time to post responses because there is so much lag. I have to wait minutes for my typed response to show up before I even hit send. It's making contributing to this stimulating conversation tedious. Although I understand there is a lot wrong with the educational system, I don't think any of it condones cheating. That's just a sorry excuse. And yes, I realize that it would be nearly impossible to ban individuals on this site due to technical issues that are above my comprehension but being that so many people really do abuse this system, maybe it's time to admit defeat and call it quits. @KonradZuse, I don't have authority to share those materials with you. You would have to contact a rep from Pearson directly. Unfortunately, I do not have the freedom of designing curriculum and therefore assessments, though I feel if teachers in this setting did have those freedoms, we could curtail a lot of cheating and catch the ones that are more serious offenders. @InkyVoyd, I find your logic extremely flawed. And that's an awful saying. Just because someone doesn't get caught cheating (and I regretfully know that several students have slipped past my radar) doesn't make the offense any less serious or real. Giving in person finals would be an awful idea too - 1. Families choose cyber schools for a multitude of reasons. It would be extremely hard (and expensive) to find testing times and locations that would satisfy our families. You must consider the fact that many of the families that are in cyber school generally have 2 or more students enrolled in different grades. We already pull our kids into central locations for state testing, if we added finals on top of that, it would cause a lot of tension, anxiety, and frustration. 2. Science shows that students test best in environments they're most comfortable in or where they did the majority of their learning. If a student does their learning at home, in their bedroom, sitting in their favorite chair, snatching them out of that environment to sit in a desk in an unfamiliar room with people they do no tknow will definitely skew the results. As I've said before, I am extremely committed to my students' successes and I make that apparent - I have been doing everything that I can. Students need to be held accountable too.
@MissTeacherLady16 It's not impossible to ban cheaters, Online schoolls like FLVS assign cookies to each computer for access. Each student on OS should be given ONE ACCOUNT and if they abuse it, they lose it. Even if you assign your own curriculum you aren't in here 24/7 and neither are we to catch everything without the actual information to catch. Your school and the other schools should be contacting us with how to solve this matter and give us the necessary info needed. Taking tests off site- Of course a student in their own home is the best place, but when they have the entire internet to cheat on, is it really learning? Did they really learn that semester? You already said you pool students in for tests, but you wouldn't for finals? Colleges all over the country do this, I don't know how a few Online HS's would have trouble scheduling final times. I agree we all test in different situations, but getting a 60 on a final, in a subject you have been studying for 4 months isn't that hard. HOw many students do you have? I'm guessing the same as my online professors for calc 2 and statistic, who spent a couple of weeks figuring out testing locations. You schools can honestly do what you want, but in the end if it's going to come back to "why are students cheating" I will go back to this post where my multiple suggestions(That will ELIMINATE the problem), were shot down.
I also agree that people cheat because they want to be the best. The want to be recognized, and they want to get that job, that gets money. They want to make their parents proud most of all. Depending on your growing up, this all matters. They say the "Asian Mom" Is the super strict mother who wants her kids to get A's no matter what, and if they don't, they get the beatings. Students will cheat if they have to. The problem is, we rely too much on school, and the topics EDUCATORS pick out for us. It's an extremely messed up system. You could be the greatest swimmer in the world, but if you don't pass that Algebra 1 you wont be able to swim for your school Messed up crap.
@KonradZuse we pool students in for state testing because we're a public school and it's required. BUT keep in mind that I stated we're a public school. But also a cyber school. We don't have a physical location other than the offices we work from which would not be efficient for mass amounts of testing. Therefore, we have to find locations that can be used for testing, and we pay for them with the money we recieve from the state. It takes a lot of resources and planning just for that. It would be ridiculous on top of all that to add in finals for each student for each of their classes. Colleges can get away with it for a number of reasons, the biggest one being that students are PAYING to be there. Plus, the allure of cyber schooling is that not only do students do their learning in the comfort of their own home, they are allowed to work at whatever pace is suitable to their learning. If, for instance the final for bio falls on May 13th (I arbitrarily picked a date), students DON'T have to take the final that day. They can take it whenever they feel like it, so long as it's by 11:59 PM of the last day of the semester. How can we say to families, well sure you have all the time you need but we are requiring that your student be prepared to take the final for this class by this day? To ME it does make sense that everyone be close to on schedule HOWEVER I know something like this would cause a huge ripple of dissatisfaction among the parents of our students. Regardless, it comes down to a money issue and we just don't have that kind of freedom. I have MANY students who are good students. They take their learning seriously, they ask for help, they write beautiful, thoughtful responses on tests. They are learning and they're doing it at home, even with the temptation of cheating. It would be unfair to penalize those good students because others are not cut out for this environment. Cyber education isn't the problem, though it has it's pitfalls, just like any educational system. I'm looking more for a way to make students understand and accept the realities of their actions, especially when it comes to academic integrity, and also to limit the availability of temptation. In theory OS is great - but in reality it's being abused beyond belief. With that said, I can no longer contribute to this conversation. The lag time that I mentioned before it is making it extremely frustrating to collaborate (every time I have a typo, I have to wait a minute or more for it to show up so I can correct it). There has to be a more efficient way to communicate on here, I really am enjoying everyone's opinion on this matter.
I did see it - but my concern would be that in this technological age, don't most families have more than one computer? Though it would surely cut down on the more lazy cheaters, students would still be able to search for test questions/answers on another computer. However, I think it's a good start to solving the issue.
The problem is, I PICKED the date I took my test, within 2 WEEK timeframe. I PAID 20-40$ to take my test, I doubt the school paid anything. Again I picked the location of a CERTIFIED place I.E., a CC, Library, HS, etc. Trust me if I could take it during a 40 hour work week + coding work per week, and w/e amount of studying, AND THEN taking my 5 online finals in the same week, and having to take 2 in house, I'm sure some kids could schedule finals to be taken. Again I personally hated it, but if you are concerned about cheating, this is the most fail proof method, which colleges have taken. Also you keep mentioning "cyber school" and "Public school." Again I was taking these courses via the Suny Learning Network up in NY, all online, public. I took a semester, and multiple classes online throughout the years. The thing you keep mentioning is the "Comfort of one's home" that's all great and dandy, but when you have the ability to cheat, not only with OS, but the internet, things need to be strict but hey it doesn' affect me, just the new wave of college students, and those entering the work force! good luck youngins!
thats the best we could do to help you as ordinary users here ... I think it can still cut down the rate of cheating to a much lower level . And we can add more to it ...with more help from programmers and from innovative ideas . But at the same time the points that came up during the later portion of the conversation should be also considered . I am happy to see so many people are spending time to help you on this matter. Together lets try to make this a place of great learning rather than cheating :)
@KonradZuse We can't ask the students to PAY anything. This is public education. That's not even close to a solution. SUNY is a college, a post secondary school. There are public and private colleges and universities, but it's post secondary and there is tuition, regardless. That's different from primary and secondary publicly funded schools. Students DO NOT pay at all to come to us. Do you understand the difference?
@missteacherlady16 , of course the logic is flawed. Do you see how society is deeply flawed as well? They allowed me to get away with such behavior. Again, I must emphasize this part I mentioned in the last section of my wall of text: Cheating must be prevented and educated against, not deterred in a real-time situation. Cheaters will always find a way - I'm sure they've existed since the dawn of humanity. We should teach students (whether truthfully or not LOL) that "cheaters never prosper", and we should show them why not. Of course, I'm not completely sure how to do this. What I do know is that until people begin to think that cheating is less profitable than honesty, they will continue to cheat. Sure, this site could be shut down to make cheating harder. Yahoo answers, and all the like could be shut down as well. That website written with 2 million lines of mathematica could be shut down; each student could be issued a laptop from the school with locked online textbooks even. Does any of this solve the fundamental issue of cheating though? I don't think so. All it does it make cheating harder, while consuming resources in the process. Yeah, the devs of this site could spend hours and hours making an autoban system, and all kinds of nice coding - and it would reduce cheating. Again, however, it would not solve the fundamental, essentially philosophical problem of cheating. I think that deterrents set in place to keep cheating from succeeding are sufficient; they will never be perfect. But what about keeping cheaters from success? Is that sufficient? And if it isn't and never will be, what is the point of a society justifying honesty? To make someone inclined to do something one should make one far more rewarding than the other, and it has to be obvious.
It would be better to address the source of the problem of cheating and not criticize or blame those who unknowingly assist or partake in the process of cheating.
Because I have not been addressing the issue of cheating. Thanks. That was enlightening. And not at all offensive or insulting.
@Dean.Shyy and the other mods/admins - you are aware, I hope that not only are students copying and pasting test questions and answers but they are also swapping personal information including personal e-mail addresses and phone numbers. This information is extremely public. Not only do we need to tackle an issue of academic integrity but also an issue of internet safety. Thye abuse I see take place on this website is horrifying. All of you should be very VERY concerned.
The issue has not been resolved.
and just again speaking of flaws of site wont help I guess
The site is doing its maximum to help Online schools and even have implemented a non-cheating poilicy recently ...It would be beter if the schools communicated with the site through email@example.com .I think carrying this conversation further will be just wastage of time here .
@MissTeacherLady16 so, again, what have you done to help out this issue besides come in, and complain how much no one does anything? Have you given us tests? Have you guided us? Also there is no public record of your students information on your site? I'm pretty sure students are REQUIRED to have group participation, so your claims about "getting numbers from each other" can happen via your own website, so please don't make silly claims blaming us.
To be honest this site isnt a "cheating site". Its a site for people to learn and for those who need help. Not alot of people give the answers straight up, they explain step by step. its nothing like yahoo answers.
I am asking for help. I am telling you all about a problem here on this site and at cyer schools across the country. No I haven't specifically found any of MY students to be swapping information, but I have found others. Rgardless of if they are my students or not, it is still an issue to be concerned about. You do not need an account to see this information. here is one such post. The admin and teachers in this school have been notified and hopefully there will be some healthy dialogue with this student, but still it is dangerous. here is the conversation I am referring to - one of many I have seen: http://openstudy.com/updates/51396120e4b01c4790d125c9 @KonradZuse, I am not going to send YOU our tests. I do not know who you are and that would be a breach of test security. I have, however, emailed firstname.lastname@example.org, so we will see what becomes of it. Sorry to be an annoying but concerned educator trying to work collaboratively with other to solve an issue that effects all students, not just those attending a cyber school. Thanks for your time and understanding.
I also apologize for my numerous typos - the lag is annoying and makes it hard and time consuming to post a response, let along spell-check/proof-read.
Um @KonradZuse represents OpenStudy, as a moderator. You wouldn't believe how selective the mod process is. And by "us", he didn't say "he" so it obviously mean't OpenStudy, email@example.com . No need to yell at everyone!
When and where am I yelling? I am simply talking as a concerned educator. And I apologize for not knowing the selective process of choosing moderators, but excuse me if I do not want to share units tests with someone identified as KonradZuse. I have contacted openstudy.com directly, and will take it from there. Thank you for your input.
Dont teachers have something better to do than sit here having concerns?
Okay so I am a moderator of this site, which means I deal with EVERY issue that arises on OpenStudy. Just like you just did, reporting the users is the best thing we can do. Also it's very hard to claim that link is cheating since it was used to link to Yahoo answers, with all of your answers, which anyone can access, without using this site. Next comes the "I don't want to share my tests with someone named (KonradZuse)." I'm not too sure what kind of comment that is, and how I should even take that... Am I being insulted? Am I being looked at like my name means nothing? let me educate you on who Grandpa Zuse was, since you're an "educator" you should enjoy this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Zuse Konrad Zuse is the man who invented what is known as the "digital computer." Without him and his Z's we might not have this wonderful technology known as the computer. He is a man who deserves everyone's respect, and his legacy will live on, RIP grandpa Zuse. Also, maybe instead of blaming everyone for your tests being available on the internet, you should maybe change your tests year to year, to you know, stop cheating? In my HS, and College, tests were changed EVERY SEMESTER. Imagine that? Students obviously tell each other everything, whether in school, or not, and seeing as students can contact each other via your site, I don't see what steps you are taking to prevent your own cheating? It's really sad when I see 50 of the same time, at 5 different times throughout the year. It's like you don't care much about your own "safety" but if OS is causing users to exploit something you have, maybe it's time for changes on your end? Now I don't like to be "mean" or "rude" but the way you've been speaking to not only myself, but to others isn't very pleasant, especially when I have been trying to not only help you, but your sister schools. I used Open Study to pass Calculus 2, when I had no help from my professors, or had to wait an hour to get "tutoring help" at school. This site is an INVALUABLE resource. Without this site Im sure many students would not learn what they needed. After having horrid math teachers from 5-10th grade, finally getting some decent help in 11-12, I got stuck in Calc 2 knowing nothing. @TurningTest @Hero @dplnac and others spent COUNTLESS hours per question helping me learn Calculus 2, and making me ENJOY IT. I never thought the class I once despised would be a class I loved. This site is whatever you want to make of it. If someone wants to cheat, they will cheat no matter what, but they will not learn anything, and they will be SOL later on. I spent so much time learning on here, that is why I love this site, and that is why I became a mod, to give back to the site that helped me in my time(s) of need!
Mods are basically RUNNING the site, to some degree. Besides, when you email firstname.lastname@example.org, I believe that @KonradZuse has access to it. He's part of the site. Emailing OpenStudy = emailing KonradZuse.
He has a special responsibility.
Yes he does. Plus, mods aren't going to cheat on tests.
Or give the questions out.
I think I'm not coming across well, probably because so much is lost when you are reading what someone is writing as opposed to actually hearing their voice. I apologize if I have been terse or 'unpleasant'. My point about the avatars is that I do not know you personally beyond your avatar (what are your qualifications?) and I do not know the process that goes into selecting mods, so it would be irresponsible on my part to share tests with you. I have contacted the site directly and will work with them in that manner. I was simply trying toopen up some dialogue among users here to understand the cheating epidemic (and it is an epidemic) and to convey my concern and distaste for the practice (which I feel has come across sufficiently well). Unfortunately, in this setting I do not have the freedom to create my own tests - they are written and designed by someone else. I can only provide feedback and facilitate learning. I am sorry that you had a bad experience in school and it seems as though you understand the value of hard work and collaborative learning. Unfortunately, this is not a quality I see in many of my students that turn to this very site to cheat. You have to understand that there is good and bad with everything, and I know that too. I am not naive. BUT it becomes very discouraging and disheartening when I spend HOURS preparing and teaching content only to open up 100 tests and see the same answer copied and pasted from this very site (and no, I am not exaggerating). Just as you feel that I am wasting time complaining about this issue, I feel that I am wasting my time teaching. I don't want to feel that way, but it's getting hard. I love teaching, I love getting to know my students, I love biology. And yes, I understand students cheat, and will continue to cheat. But what I am saying is that while this site is helpful to many, it is harmful and being abused by many more (even if they are not actively participating by creating an account and contributing). And as I see the new responses that popped up, I can't help but be frustrated that I still seem to be largely understood. Where is the disconnect? I don't think that mods cheat, I think you are trying to uphold the original intentions of this site - I have never said otherwise. What I did say is that it would be irresponsible of me to share test material with this site without consent from my superiors. It is not my place to disclose that information and as I have learned (from Preetha's speedy reply - thank you, btw), members of my school are already working with the site. I would appreciate the common courtesy of mutual respect for one another as I truly have only my students' success in mind.
I really am done with this conversation though as I seem to be pitted as the bad guy. Konrad, I am sincerely sorry for offending you. Best wishes@
How about you google the essay questions if there are any and then see if they plagiarized?
This site can also be a place for people who like to help others and actual feel as if they are teachers. it makes them feel good helping others.
No worries, and I am sorry if I was "mean" as well, I just am doing my job, which is spending countless hours of my free time(when I should be programming) on here to help students. I know you are very upset, and I don't blame you, we are ALL upset. I just don't want OS to be the "bad guys" when EVERYONE has to play their part. The educational system has soo many flaws, but we need to fix them! Problem is it's not you, it's the "big wigs" we don't care about it much. As for how I am selected, I have to give my Personal Information (Photo ID) and had to go through an interview mic/cam with PReetha to become what I am. If there is an issue with tests, mods will HAVE TO get them, because we are the only ones who take care of forum issues. Lets hope this all works out.
Konrad, thank you for sharing the selection process - this is good information to know :) I'm sorry that we got off on the wrong foot but I look forward to working with the site to help curtail cheating as much as possible. Thanks!
Yes, we have to be serious because like you said we are on "Thin" water now. I want everyone to be happy, but I don't want OS to be the bad guys, because like I said I spent soooo much time learning on here, and I want others to feel the same. But as someone who has hated school in the past, I understand why students cheat, which is why I posted my thoughts about on how to "make students happy, make them learn, and have everyone be happy!" I know most teachers want their students to be happy, and succeed.
Yes. By the way, regarding @konradzuse he is more then a profile. He's part of the whole process of the site. You might as well not contact the site because you doubt the guy's behind it their qualification's. Besides, as far as I know when you contact them he receives the email as well.
I get too many emails >(.
@Dumbsearch2 - I appreciate you taking the time to read through the dialogue btwn Konrad and I - I was unaware of the process and the site does not provide much information. In this day and age, especially with the internet, you can never be too careful. I was being cautious. No need to be rude.
I'm not rude.
Wow. You OpenStudiers are great. Thank you Dumbsearch, Konrad, Inkyvoyd,Frostbite,UmarsBack. Nothing more to be said. Except ask you as a CA teacher tocontact your Senior Admin and suggest an official OpenStudy CA group. New models like online high schools need new ways of thinking about assessment and socialization and learning. If you create a new "school" paradigm you also need to invent a new assessment paradigm and a new collaboration environment. You are hearing first hand that today's learners need OpenStudy.
it may sound stupid of me but if you think about it people will cheat, but if you do try to help them and have them figure it out on their own it will help. my best friend had tht struggle in algebra and i helped her and tried to teach her.
@Poetrylover lets speak abt it later :) ..I think this discussion should better end here :) /*_______________CLOSED ______________________________*/
ghost boy exceeds in remaining anonymous you shall feel the wrath of cheating from ghost boy
@Ghostboy2872 , I think you entirely missed the point of our discussion sadly. The point we were trying to make is that cheating will always happen, but sooner or later the cheater is going to get caught... And there are different ways to catch a cheater... even if you get your diploma, if you are not qualified, you will never pass...
it was joke calm down @inkyvoyd