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KonradZuse

Cheating and Education, how do we stop Cheating, while making students WANT to learn?

  • one year ago
  • one year ago

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  1. KonradZuse
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    Cross posted from here http://openstudy.com/study#/updates/5137a46fe4b01c4790d01ba4 Why do students cheat? Why can't we get students to learn, and enjoy learning? As a student who has HATED the "educational system" for a very long time, and as someone who WANTS TO LEARN WHAT I NEED IN LIFE let me explain a few things. First let me explain who I am. I am a computer science graduate who works for a few companies, as well as contracting work. I work mostly for a plannogram company that builds store layouts for stores such as Walmart, Target, and Best Buy. When I went to school I went to aprivate school, and then went to public HS. The "education" was a joke. You learned math, science, and "English" for 8 years, then you came into hs and learned the same things for another 4 years. College came oooh I'm excited maybe I will learn something, but no, I come in paying 10's of thousands of dollars to a institution, only to teach me 23 CLASSES (69 or so) credits of 120 credit major, was (DECS) General Education GARBAGE. My first coding class in 11th grade was nothing more than a complete joke. We spent the entire time planning an RPG game, but spent a month learning how to code nothing, let along a full scale GUI game. I came into College with a bright outlook, but was shot down. In my "computer science" classes we learned useless theory, and no code. Code was something we did on our own, or if it was my second semester they did the code for us, and gave uis that bright A, as if we accomplished something. The problem is I learned nothing. I came into school, from the age of 3, knowing I wanted to be a software engineer/computer architect like my father, but was shot down my entire educational career. I told myself the only way to learn, is to learn on my own, which is what I did, and I am here now. So what does this mean to you, and why am I mentioning it with cheating? The simple answer is because they are learning something, so incredibly boring, they have no interest to even ATTEMPT the work. THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, AND WHY I ALWAYS BRING IT UP. http://openstudy.com/users/konradzuse#/updates/51003511e4b00c5a3be69f64 is where we discussed the online bill of rights. Why do students not care about their education? How do we get students to "want to learn?" Teach them things that actually interest them. If I work or learn something I don't care about I'll give 20% attention to it, so if that translates to the work world I only give 20% output in my job, that loses my boss money, and eventually I get fired. When I learn something I want to learn, and it interests me I give it 150%. So when I'm working on my programming assignments that I have to do for my clients, I make sure to give my all, because I'm having a ton of fun, and I'm enjoying work. "Work isn't work if it's fun." is a quote I live by. Please read this article about MBA's http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323884304578328243334068564.html?KEYWORDS=mba I quote from this article "When you are competing against 3.5 billion people, it pays to be different. But getting another university degree doesn't make you different." We are teaching our students to be zombies and to all be the same, this is the problem. Teach us, and our kids ACTUAL SKILLS NEEDED FOR THE REAL WORLD. TEACH KIDS THINGS THEY WANT TO LEARN, MAKE THEM "INTERESTED" IN THE FIELDS. I am a computer scientist, and I really want to know why I needed 20 years of History classes. My 1 semester of History of Computer Science was FASCINATING, guess where I got the name "Konrad Zuse" from? I enjoyed it, I loved it, I watched it so close, so hard, because I wanted to. I took a class that I wanted, and I learned from it, why can't everyone have that same choice? Again I am the lucky one. I knew from the age of 3 that I wanted to do computers, and I made sure I learned the skills needed, on my own. The thing is what about the students who don't know what they want? I know College juniors and seniors who don't know what they want, and guess what we now have another unemployed person with no skills out there. That or they go to the army. TRUST ME on this one, if the educational system actually taught us useful skills, and taught us how to persue the path WE WANT I GUARANTEE you will ELIMINATE, or come close to it, cheating.

    • one year ago
  2. Kitt020912
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    The point of Os is to get help right? We're here to guide students into getting the right answers instead of giving out the answers. That's why we give warning to stop people from only giving out the answers. Thats how we stop cheating from occuring. I didn't really take the time to read all of what you said, but i'm sure you make some great points into furthering student education.

    • one year ago
  3. completeidiot
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    note- if you learned nothing, then that's your problem theory is useful if we're just taught how to do it, then how would we tackle abstract problems

    • one year ago
  4. KonradZuse
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    Yes Kitt, you are correct. The teacher in that post was very upset about cheating, but the thing is it's not just about cheating on OS, it's cheating in general. IT's a bit problem, and that stems from students not learning what they want, and not learning what is needed for them to advance themselves in the real world. Completeidiot we are taught to do things in many ways. Some students ike lectures, while others like videos, and pictures. One part is how things are taught, yes, buyt the main problem is, "What is taught?"

    • one year ago
  5. Darrius
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    I love school actually. I cheat sometimes not going to lie but not often. My school teacher are cool and the reason i dont think i cheat in there classes is becuase the way they teach it. they teach it with so much fun/ activity that i want to learn about it. I like to be help on OS, I dont really ask ethaty many questions becuase if i google it the question is already there. OS if full of people cheating and yuo cant change that.

    • one year ago
  6. KonradZuse
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    Darrius, you are 100% correct. You learned because you loved your professor and how they taught the material. Again make students WANT TO LEARN. OF coruse there is no way to get rid of the essential basica, but those basics aren't needed for 15 years. My first PHysicsd class I HATED the professor, I loved physics in HS, but I was very upset with PHY1. PHysics 2 comes out and I had the greatest professor ever. How it's taught, what is taught, and who is teaching are all important.

    • one year ago
  7. Kitt020912
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    I'm not sure how we can stop cheating in general.. I mean if you wanted to do that, you might as well contact google and tell them not to give results on questions. Per say if someone were to type their question into google to get the answer, then google wouldn't show any results that give out the answer. However that is something that is nearly impossible to make happen. All I know is that we can stop cheating on OS, but anywhere else is beyond our control.

    • one year ago
  8. KonradZuse
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    Well, yes obviously, that's not my point though :P.

    • one year ago
  9. Darrius
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    Google would lose buisness tho, Becuase people would bing it or yahoo awnser, Either eway kids are going to cheat. Theres no stoppping it. Theres always around it.

    • one year ago
  10. modphysnoob
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    tl;dr, get to the point

    • one year ago
  11. KonradZuse
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    Again not the point :p. The point is.. we should learn what we want to learn, and actually gain "useful" skills :). Obviouasly iit's almost 100% impossible to stop cheating, unless you came up with your own problems every single year, which no one does lol.

    • one year ago
  12. modphysnoob
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    if they cheat , they lose; or this site could implement stricter rules (like other sites) which it won't because it is dying

    • one year ago
  13. KonradZuse
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    Which is why I brought up the inhouse finals :P.

    • one year ago
  14. KonradZuse
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    and yes we need way stricter rules. We play too nice here.

    • one year ago
  15. Kitt020912
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    What rules do you plan on making?

    • one year ago
  16. modphysnoob
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    we can ask for "attempt at solution" before helping but this site would never implement that

    • one year ago
  17. karatechopper
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    Well, I just lecture them about how they are ruining their own lives..

    • one year ago
  18. KonradZuse
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    no one want sto attempt tho.... They already attempted, which brings them here :p.

    • one year ago
  19. modphysnoob
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    but we want to see what they attempted

    • one year ago
  20. completeidiot
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    ok, time to pick apart this wall of text i am 3rd year engineering student why do students cheat? simple, they're lazy and have other things they would rather do. also because some students are forced to take classes they have no interest in them even if it embodies the entire major they're working towards ex. i know alot of engineering students only decided to go into engineering simply because they liked cars. So you make them take chemistry, physics, math, etc. they have no interest in them simply because it does not pertain to cars although these classes are very important to engineering in general now this given example really only pertains to college so on to public school the public school system really doesn't care about your interest, their job is to teach all students the same broad range of knowledge. Also, they don't have the resources to focus on just individual students. There are however vocational schools, which do offer specific fields of research but not all high schoolers know what they want to do in the future, and thus it is only useful for students who absolutely know what they want to do in the future. now, onto how to get students to learn, incentive although this really only applies to younger students teach the students what they want to learn- not all students want to learn in general some just want to socialize and play games and do nothing with their lives now, even if all students wanted to learn something, again the public school system does not have the resources to teach them all the specific fields that they want to learn also, i must note that students interests changes over time anyways if we're to undergo education reform, that would require money, resources, teachers, etc the question then becomes how in the world could we make this system work better useful skills- a useful skill to one might not be useful to another i would write more but im kind of lazy

    • one year ago
  21. modphysnoob
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    there is no reason to write 2 page essay, just state your point

    • one year ago
  22. completeidiot
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    its fun and i was bored

    • one year ago
  23. KonradZuse
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    this is for chatting, if you don't like it, leave modphy... No one is asking you to stay here, nor comment. Complete you are correct, which is some of what I was saying. Some poeple are lazy and it's enevitable, but like you said some only went into the major for cars... I remmeber this girl Brandy was in Engineering PHysics, and dropped all the way down into normal physics, and said she wanted to becoem an Engineer... for the money... hahaa...

    • one year ago
  24. alva_marie13
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    Students cheat because teachers and especially schools put an emphasis on passing that all that eventually matters is passing, the letter grade, not learning. If you learn but try, you might fail. If you fail, you get kicked out of school or whatever. But if you pass, you succeed.

    • one year ago
  25. KonradZuse
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    Exactly Alva.

    • one year ago
  26. KonradZuse
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    I'm glad I'm done with school, and I know my kids will learn what's needed.. It's really sad the situation everyone is in.

    • one year ago
  27. alva_marie13
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    @completeidiot it's not that students are lazy, but they have no motivation to learn because if they truly learn there is a probability of failure so they literally think I'm just gonna cheat. ALSO some teachers "claim" to teach when in reality they do nothing and the student will not fail. I'm in high school so I know how the whole thing works and what goes through our minds.

    • one year ago
  28. completeidiot
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    hmm i think i may have strayed a bit onto the cheating what can be done to prevent it well not much, we already have penalties for cheating, depending on the education level it is worth noting that there are some people who think that they can cheat and get away with it, and usually do and there's really nothing you can do you could try to focus more on catching the cheaters but that would take time that the teachers dont want to spend then the people who would much rather spend their time doing something else and cheating to get it out of the way i guess this would pertain under making the course more interesting, but even if the course is more interesting, what if they'd much rather go to a party or watch a movie instead then there's not much you could do about it there are the people who cheat just because they dont understand the material this would fall under the instructors teaching the students or the students own ability to absorb the material. instructors- this comes down to resources and time, usually money, and also how well the instructor understand the material they are teaching. Oh, and also attitude. understand that after a while, some instructors are sick and tired or how stupid people could get. they're people too, they get frustrated students- people just might not get it no matter how many times you repeat it and how many times you walk them through the steps and how many different ways you can explain it what can be done- better instructors? this is extremely difficult as it requires resources that we just dont have. for students- not much, even if they have the motivation they might not understand the material i must make note that yes, some teacher are lazy as well and teach absolutely nothing what can we do about this, fire them? hire a better teacher? again resources are an issue. how would you determine who was a better teacher? test scores? standardized testing? (which i think is a joke) i've lost my train of thought again halfway through this so yea... there are so many different issues and possibilities, trying to tackle them all is difficult

    • one year ago
  29. Darrius
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    It takes longer to cheat than it does toactually write your own awnser. JS

    • one year ago
  30. completeidiot
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    not always, sometimes answers to specific questions are online with the steps and all that is required is to just copy them down

    • one year ago
  31. completeidiot
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    although learning from the answers is highly dependant on the students themselves id guess that if you gave the students the answer to a problem with steps, only a very few would take the time to understand where each step came from

    • one year ago
  32. KonradZuse
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    Alva is correct as well :). Students become "lazy" because of the garbage we are being fed. You said you're a 3rd year engineering student right? Technically as I said above 63 of my credits were Gen ED, so that would mean after 2 years I et a degree, which your 3rd year wouldn't exist... Also even if we had the same amount of courses/years, it wouldn't matter IF WE ENJOYED the material.. Idk about all of you, but I'm still learning. I'm learning right now, before I type this, and after I type this. My job, and my code are constantly being revamped, and the sad thing is, you will still learn in your job. Ont he job training, and how things are done. They don't teach you that at school... As t

    • one year ago
  33. KonradZuse
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    As The mbA Article states "Instead of relying on business school to succeed, deliberately practice the skills necessary to become a master in your chosen field. Build a network that supports your professional aspirations. Work on projects that show you can have an impact in the real world, dealing with practical problems. Most of all, put yourself in the shoes of your future boss and imagine whom you would rather hire: the candidate who built a profitable business over the course of two years, or the candidate who sat in lectures and reviewed case studies to get a degree?"

    • one year ago
  34. completeidiot
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    on a note- the pressures of the grading system probably just my two cents on this learning from our mistakes- i feel is one of the better ways of learning however the way the grading system is situated, you only get one shot to do well, there is no room for error and thus you are unable to learn from your mistakes

    • one year ago
  35. KonradZuse
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    We live in a world where you can do anything you want to. Look at people like Justin Beiber who we were talking about earlier. He waqs scouted on youtube. Other people like "The Voice" were found ont he side of the road, and broadcast to the internet.. The internet is the greatest thing ever, and it has the ability to create new jobs, and advance ourselves. The problem is the educational system wants us to learn about "English" LOL for 20 years instead of technology. Isn't it pathetic for such a technological age, we have ZERO tech classes in most schools?

    • one year ago
  36. completeidiot
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    oh right, thank you for remind me jobs they are very very specific, and sometimes, you'll end up not using a majority of what you've learned now no one for sure knows what kind of job they'll be getting in the future its hard to predict that and hard to prepare for such a thing i will agree that yes the person taht built a business in that 2 years would most likely be picked over the person who sat in a lecture. but you also need to consider that not all people have the ability and or resources to start their own business or build their own car sometimes, sitting in a lecture is all they really can do onto english- it is not entirely useless, honestly i wished i paid more attention to it and my grammar was not crap the line is very blurry when it comes to english it teaches you how to write and some reading comprehension but its not a science there are no definite answers an example- what does the salamander in Fahrenheit 451 represent, or what did the author try to express when writing so and so. my friend did his senior speech on why high school english was a waste of time, it was a brilliantly written speech. the salamander doesnt have to represent fire or whatever the teacher said, it could represent a purple hippo in a tutu. one must remember that reading is subjective not objective, its like art restructuring the entire English program would still however be difficult but it still has its uses. i mean it would be terribly sad to see a 12th grader write in broken sentences while spelling everything incorrectly

    • one year ago
  37. completeidiot
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    ok i think im done commenting on this subject i leave while saying, look at the bigger picture, when you think you've finally seen the whole picture, you haven't. The world and all its complexity, there's no way one can picture it all.

    • one year ago
  38. Darrius
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    I think it'sreally sad when people from online school cheat using the internet. We have books that are issued to us. So istead of opeing a book and figuing out the awnser People go online and post the question. Its horrible sad becuase at least when you go in the book you figure out how to do the problem or learn about it. I think thats the saddest part

    • one year ago
  39. KonradZuse
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    @complete you know what job you will get, because you trained for it your entire life. Since there are no jobs now, whether you get a degree or not you might get nothing or might strike gold. Fit he system, was set up in a way that everyone could learn, and be "unique" more jobs would be issued, and more people would want to work!

    • one year ago
  40. KonradZuse
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    My friend @pwebbiz opened a Advertising Business in Manhattan, after dropping out of school. People need to go for their dreams, and do what their hearts tell them.

    • one year ago
  41. godorovg
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    Hey I will say this about cheating and why students do it. Students cheat because either can not get how to do it? , can not get help. and are lazy and don't want to learn. Now let's put this in logical sense for oppenstudy.com. Those who help students understands why we want to help, and those that are students come here for that help. Cheating goes on in the world, the way we can here at openstudy.com curve this, is by reporting it. Students are sometimes very young and for whatever reasons parents of that student didn't take the time to explain this. If you know a student is chatting ask him/her some questions, don't you are chatting, and than be nice and explain why that is considered according to CoC of openstudy. It makes mad as well, just know it's the cheater that looses in the end.

    • one year ago
  42. faman26
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    Why you think that i cheated @KonradZuse ?

    • one year ago
  43. faman26
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    I can never think of it :( It just posted few old test probs to understand those, otherwise, i love OS. I cannot do that and um not wicked person who will cheat her education

    • one year ago
  44. KonradZuse
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    Faman, we do not like to ban students, but since we are having issues with FLVS (Many students got emails) check here http://openstudy.com/study#/updates/514122dee4b0d5d99f3e51c4 Also posting tests, exams, finals, or anything else that could aid another student is "cheating." From what you say you weren't trying to cheat, but the mods do not know that, so we act accordingly. message contact@openstudy.com to make a case.

    • one year ago
  45. faman26
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    Oh ok

    • one year ago
  46. KonradZuse
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    Also again lets say you were just checking your answers and someone who is in the grade behind you sees a final(which is the same as theirs) they take it and wala they bypass the "cheater" and get away with it too.

    • one year ago
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